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Online dating
#51
(05-08-2018, 08:12 AM)Naive Wrote:
(05-08-2018, 07:35 AM)Jim Wrote:
(05-07-2018, 03:42 PM)Tamagoto Wrote: Jim you do come across as having a problem with women themselves sometimes. I know you’ve been hurt. We all have. But it’s not women that are the problem, just people!

I don't think that's the case and we are going to have to agree to differ. Speaking for myself I find your above-all-this-just-read-a-book-about-stoicism attitude difficult to take. Reading a book doesn't solve anything. It's just a straw to grasp at to avoid looking at real pain. Your pain and everybody else's. Come down off your mountain. People aren't a 'problem'. People are people. Everybody is people. You are people. You can't use a book to escape the human condition. And to be honest I think you should stop demanding the rest of us read the book and do it too.

Something I have noticed is there seem to be fewer regular posters on here than a few months ago and getting fewer all the time. It could be because every time somebody posts something genuine and heartfelt you have to pull rank like the resident expert and tell 'em to stop being silly and read a book. After a while a person learns not to bother because if you say something open you'll just get shot down for it. That's a real shame because the only thing that's real about the whole rotten situation is people's honest feelings not the fact that you read a book and now you feel like a changed man.

Jim, we feel your pain, we've all been there, going through it and we all have our own ways to deal with it. Tam's got his and if it works he wants to help other's as we all do.
So as we are all here as friends and support I think youre being unfair. You need only take the advice or not, read the book or not.

For me I like this site because I came in with a LOT of anger and I got shot down for it. I like that we can rise above the nastiness and keep it about the children.
Truthfully I wouldnt have made it with my sanity in tact if it werent for the likes of Tam, LTCDAD and Charlie7000.
We're all here for you buddy, but I personally dont want to descend into hatred. Its a self indulgent and a slippery slope for me. A lot of the other guys here need help getting over the anger.

Hi Naive. It's not about descending into anger and hatred. It's a real difference of opinion about the stoicism thing. In the months since this happened I have had 2 'insights'. The first that there is a heck of a lot of pain and suffering around. Much more than I ever imagined existed in our society. Maybe I was smug or stupid before but I just didn't see it. Now i do. The second is that all the way along I have grasped at straws to escape the pain. I imagine other people do the same. Now this is the difference: Tam thinks his book is the solution. I think it's just another straw. If it helps that's great but I think it's a stepping stone not the end destination. If it could be allowed that this is a possibility it would help.
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#52
dude - you really do come across as having a problem with women themselves, time and time again you post things about how money grabbing, attention seeking and downright conniving they are. That's no doubt because you have been hurt, but man, people are dicks, not women.

As for the books - well I'm sorry they haven't helped you but they sure as hell have helped a lot of other people, they keep saying thank you! The books are the best recommendation to give, thats facts, cheap and doable in a weekend. Of course we're all much better off getting 1:1 counselling, learning proper mindfulness and learning to forgive, but I cannot do that in a quick paragraph tapped out on my phone.

Stoicism isn't really something you can disagree with, you might not like it, but it does work, it's demonstrably true that you have no control over anything outside your mental responses to events. You can decide to react to your wife being a dick in a different way, you just aren't.

Step back from that defensive stance and you'll see you're not being attacked Smile Peace
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#53
Tam - you and I are coming philosophically from a similar place. A kind of spiritual path. If you read about some of these religious philosophers they seem to make a similar progress: they start off gaining a certain amount of knowledge and that sets them apart from 'ordinary' people. It denies a lot of their human failings. But at the end of it there is no choice but to be 'ordinary' too. They start the journey looking for something different - call it 'God' or 'Enlightenment' - but end up being just a human being. Because there is no other place to go. For me the big lesson about this whole rotten business is that a lot of people are hurting and everybody hurts the same. It's the human condition. I don't think there's a secret recipe to get us out of it. The best I can think to do is wish for compassion and mercy.
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#54
(05-08-2018, 09:07 AM)Jim Wrote: For me the big lesson about this whole rotten business is that a lot of people are hurting and everybody hurts the same. It's the human condition. I don't think there's a secret recipe to get us out of it. The best I can think to do is wish for compassion and mercy.

Well that's certainly true Smile
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#55
Tamagoto
[quote pid='25764' dateline='1525769691']
dude - you really do come across as having a problem with women themselves, time and time again you post things about how money grabbing, attention seeking and downright conniving they are ...
[/quote]

For the record that's not actually true. Specifically 'money grabbing, attention seeking and downright conniving' is definitely not true. I think you have me mixed up with somebody else. My particular complaint is the 180 turnaround from love to hate. I find it utterly baffling. It's the thing I always pick up on in the hope that somebody can shed light on the subject.

(05-08-2018, 09:24 AM)Tamagoto Wrote:
(05-08-2018, 09:07 AM)Jim Wrote: For me the big lesson about this whole rotten business is that a lot of people are hurting and everybody hurts the same. It's the human condition. I don't think there's a secret recipe to get us out of it. The best I can think to do is wish for compassion and mercy.

Well that's certainly true Smile

To be honest I think we would both do well to put each other on ignore. The differences are deep and we're not going to see each other's point of view without getting into an argument. What do you say that we agree in a friendly way not to pick up on each others' posts?
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#56
(05-08-2018, 09:28 AM)Jim Wrote: Tamagoto
[quote pid='25764' dateline='1525769691']
dude - you really do come across as having a problem with women themselves, time and time again you post things about how money grabbing, attention seeking and downright conniving they are ...

For the record that's not actually true. Specifically 'money grabbing, attention seeking and downright conniving' is definitely not true. I think you have me mixed up with somebody else. My particular complaint is the 180 turnaround from love to hate. I find it utterly baffling. It's the thing I always pick up on in the hope that somebody can shed light on the subject.
[/quote]

It's not really a sudden 180 turnaround, though it may seem like that. They've actually probably hated you for quite a while  but were hiding it until  they:
1. decided they'd had enough 
2. or Mr Right rode into town 
Their version of the truth is always option 1
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#57
"It's not really a sudden 180 turnaround, though it may seem like that. They've actually probably hated you for quite a while  but were hiding it until  they:
1. decided they'd had enough
2. or Mr Right rode into town
Their version of the truth is always option 1"

Oddly enough I have read this before and for some reason always discounted it because it didn't SEEM to fit my particular circumstances. The example always given is some long-suffering wife hinting and hinting and hinting to the husband that there's an issue til she's blue in the face and the stupid slob not paying attention until it's too late. But all of a sudden I think you might have hit the nail bang on the head and the way forward is find a way to fit the circumstances to the statement. I can see a couple of ways it can be done. It's not text book but it could fit.

Thanks for taking the trouble. Appreciated.
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#58
(05-08-2018, 09:59 AM)watsa64 Wrote:
(05-08-2018, 09:28 AM)Jim Wrote: Tamagoto
[quote pid='25764' dateline='1525769691']
dude - you really do come across as having a problem with women themselves, time and time again you post things about how money grabbing, attention seeking and downright conniving they are ...

For the record that's not actually true. Specifically 'money grabbing, attention seeking and downright conniving' is definitely not true. I think you have me mixed up with somebody else. My particular complaint is the 180 turnaround from love to hate. I find it utterly baffling. It's the thing I always pick up on in the hope that somebody can shed light on the subject.

It's not really a sudden 180 turnaround, though it may seem like that. They've actually probably hated you for quite a while  but were hiding it until  they:
1. decided they'd had enough 
2. or Mr Right rode into town 
Their version of the truth is always option 1
[/quote]


More likely a mental health issue if they display that 'black and white' mind which is a strong indication of some kind of personality disorder.
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#59
(05-08-2018, 10:28 AM)beehive84 Wrote:
(05-08-2018, 09:59 AM)watsa64 Wrote:
(05-08-2018, 09:28 AM)Jim Wrote: Tamagoto
[quote pid='25764' dateline='1525769691']
dude - you really do come across as having a problem with women themselves, time and time again you post things about how money grabbing, attention seeking and downright conniving they are ...

For the record that's not actually true. Specifically 'money grabbing, attention seeking and downright conniving' is definitely not true. I think you have me mixed up with somebody else. My particular complaint is the 180 turnaround from love to hate. I find it utterly baffling. It's the thing I always pick up on in the hope that somebody can shed light on the subject.

It's not really a sudden 180 turnaround, though it may seem like that. They've actually probably hated you for quite a while  but were hiding it until  they:
1. decided they'd had enough 
2. or Mr Right rode into town 
Their version of the truth is always option 1


More likely a mental health issue if they display that 'black and white' mind which is a strong indication of some kind of personality disorder.
[/quote]

She certainly does that and it's going on month after month without sign of a let up. But I am reluctant to think it's a personality disorder or a mental health issue. She was always the most balanced and reasonable person I ever knew. Could it be a symptom of depression? The xxxxxxx menopause doesn't help. Thanks for the input.
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#60
The way I see it is, like any physical injury, it takes time to heal. Its a fact of life. If you break your leg you need a cast for 6 weeks. You can take the cast off and pretend the break isnt there but it will likely just cause more pain and prolong the healing. Its inevitable and all you can do is help the healing process but lets be honest there isnt much you can do but manage the pain and not make the wound worse.
So whatever the philosophy, angle or path, its really only about managing the pain. For me there was only one way, out of sight out of mind. I could handle the thoughts of her with someone else, living as a family without me, because thats all they were, thoughts, nothing of reality. I just struggled having to see her every couple of days, and seeing "HIM" driving through the village knowing where he is going. 

Now that she has her "lives with order" she is deliberately flaunting the new guy, brazen as you like. She either still has feelings for me or just cant let go of the anger. Thankfully now I only have to see her every two weeks, and when school starts I wont see her on any regular basis. Happy days.
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