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What is happening to our wives?!
#11
(09-25-2018, 09:10 AM)mikec Wrote: I’d like someone to now tell me that this behaviour, however immoral / unjust for us, doesn’t affect her ability to love and care for our children.  I’ve lost a lot of confidence in my judgement from this.   

I feel guilty for my kids, but I’ll feel better if I know it’s only me she now can’t stand, and she is completely together in every other aspect of her life!

Hey Mike - I don't know if your wife had an affair (or you did) or you both just grew apart - you answer your own question maybe? As far as your wife (and maybe others) is concerned is that the whole of her life is together, but you (us blokes) are the problem, what they want is the rest of it everything else (house, kids, jobs, cars, holidays) but without you/us, and in many cases they want a new exciting and attention giving newer version of you/us, and may in fact have one lined up. They don't see the whole package and team approach that we present, the work, the money, the jobs around the house and looking after the kids. Many of us men see 'team family' and 'project family', whilst they see a network of communication channels that provide various types of fulfilment.

Seriously, they are just wired differently....
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#12
(09-26-2018, 06:50 AM)mikec Wrote: Fatcat - like you my wife has told me this is mostly my fault.  Just before this all happened she wanted to leave her new job and move to the country.  I said "sure - let's do it" (I work from home so can be anywhere).  Later I was told that I should've known she didn't really want to leave her new job and move to the country and I was being selfish by going along with it.

Jim - that last sentence of yours is, I suppose, where I'm trying to get to with all this.  It's going to be so hard spending the rest of my life loving my kids with all my heart, and hating my wife with all my heart!  Feeling nothing for her, to me seems just as bad, we still have to hand our kids over to them when it's their turn.  The aim is to be friends, but that feels un-obtainable right now.

Hi Mike. You asked a basic question that I puzzled and puzzled over for months. It was the biggest thing I couldn't get my head around. Sometimes I asked it out loud on the board but it was never picked up. Sometimes my attempts to get discussion going were branded misogynistic. I think it's not something all of us find easy to understand for obvious reasons. Something I stumbled upon completely by accident is the astonishing importance of saying sorry. As a bloke I thought it was so obvious it went without saying. But I said it almost in passing one day and went from zero to human being in a single bound. At that point my perception of her behaviour changed too. Another lady confirmed it's a general truth: actually saying you're sorry really means something to a woman. Maybe it's something readers might find applicable and helpful.
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#13
I agree with you Sandman.  We were going through a period where the romance had vanished and she met someone who offered romance.  She didn't think about losing her home, the freedom it gave her, hurting her kids, hurting the most loyal and generous friend she had (me).  I accept that's how things happen.  People don't stop to think of the consequences.  But as things began to unfold over the past 4 months you could see the stress taking its toll on her.

I don't want to get bitter, but this is what I struggle with at the moment:  My ten-year-old son keeps breaking down in tears at the smallest thing.  Just stopping in his tracks when we're walking to school and sobbing.  He's really lashing out at me at times.   I know it's because she's moved out because we've spoken.  (He actually said it was all my fault last night and my girls both jumped in to say that mum had wanted to split up with me, not the other way round).   He's old enough to understand it better than the other two.  The girls are a bit younger and are excited about having a new flat to stay at. I don't think it's hit them yet.  But prior to her moving out they were both playing up loads.

When she turns up, as she did as I was walking them to school this morning, I explained why my son was upset and she was all smiles and cuddling him.  it's the right thing to do, of course, but I look at her and think.."You did this.  This was all your selfishness.  You're a fraud.  You hurt your kids just so that you could go out and shag other blokes".  When I tell her about things they've said, like when my 7-year-old said she was sad that I wasn't her dad anymore (my ex had told school friends we'd split up and they'd told my daughter I wasn't her dad anymore, FFS)  she just brushes it off with comments like, "Ahhh, it's difficult for them to understand".  It enrages me. She fked this all up for them, not me.  But I know it's unhelpful and I'll only end up bitter and miserable.

(09-26-2018, 08:02 AM)Jim Wrote: Hi Mike. You asked a basic question that I puzzled and puzzled over for months. It was the biggest thing I couldn't get my head around. Sometimes I asked it out loud on the board but it was never picked up. Sometimes my attempts to get discussion going were branded misogynistic. I think it's not something all of us find easy to understand for obvious reasons. Something I stumbled upon completely by accident is the astonishing importance of saying sorry. As a bloke I thought it was so obvious it went without saying. But I said it almost in passing one day and went from zero to human being in a single bound. At that point my perception of her behaviour changed too. Another lady confirmed it's a general truth: actually saying you're sorry really means something to a woman. Maybe it's something readers might find applicable and helpful.


I never had an issue with apologising if I'd done something to upset her.  She was much less inclined to.
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#14
What he said ^^^^^
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#15
Fatcat - its like eating a never ending supply of shit sometimes. This impossible situation we are put into with our kids. I haven't said a bad word to them about their mother but in the darkest moments I feel like I want to tell the whole world exactly how it is!

Jim - I think you could be right, although in my specific situation I was always the one to apologise. This was always to put an end to conflict. I thought I was being the bigger person, but she saw this as not engaging with the relationship, and I think she was right. I've learnt a lot about relationships since this has happened!

Sandman - no affairs although she told me a month ago she's been seeing someone for "a few months" - it's probably naive of me to take that time scale at face value given what I've read on here. Going back to the original post, as hard as it is to take, I accept that people change and drift apart, it's the way it's being handled that seems so shitty to me.
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#16
Oh so many things here.....


OK - most important. Separated Dads is an echo chamber. We are all here with very very similar stories. Is that because our experiences are typical of the wider world or because we sought out support for what happened to us. Clue: It's the later.

Secondly. This is not a problem with women, either singularly or collectively. Many of us here have suffered, seemingly from decisions made by women, but that's the only common thread between them.

Society is broken. People - men and women, are all being let down by a culture that prizes people getting on the relationship ladder above ALL ELSE and then judging us when we are not happy (one, or both of us).

Relationships are not a destination (until you both die) they are journeys (with things to be enjoyed on the way). My ex wife is a prick. But I did love her for ten years and have two wonderful kids. Her being an asshole doesn't devalue that time we did have.

We all have very unrealistic expectations about relationships in the world. They are not based on communication and understanding, instead they are based on what we thought we perceived when we were growing up, the movies and films we watched, what other couples around us projected into the world. Not reality.

Our wives, by and large, got bored. Instead of communicating that clearly, they fucked things up for us. Just as many men do this. The victims of those circumstances are on Mumsnet. But if you really look at it, they are victims of circumstance and culture as well.

Empathy, understanding, these are all key towards moving forwards with our lives and not being bitter.
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#17
Hi Mike, Fatcat, Sandman. I was always OK with apologizing too. It was never a problem just part of good manners and being considerate. That's part of what caught me by surprise this time: for some reason this time it meant a huge deal. Seems to have changed her whole way of looking at me from 100% blame for everything to human being with a perspective of my own. It was my female solicitor who picked up on it and said it's a very important thing. Don't ask me: I'm just a bloke.
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#18
Hey Tamagoto, though I accept and agree with virtually everything you've said here, many of us on this thread at still in those early stages where we want to rant, to bounce it off the walls, to express our hurt and anger. It's all part of the healing process.  I, for one, felt like I was through the worst of it. I'd moved on. Left her behind.  Was finding happiness.  But then she moved out this weekend (obviously, it was going to happen, but hadn't so far).  The jealousy came back for several reasons.  I'm watching the kids suffer .  And yes - the betrayal is still incredibly painful for me, especially as she used me for several months to provide her with the lifestyle and freedom that actually allowed her to have the affair.  I didn't deserve that and felt far too much affection, love and respect for her to have done it to her, even though I was also feeling neglected and alienated.

But, in time I will come to terms with it. I will rise above it. I'll forgive.  I might understand but I'm not sure even she does yet.

(09-26-2018, 09:25 AM)Jim Wrote: Hi Mike, Fatcat, Sandman. I was always OK with apologizing too. It was never a problem just part of good manners and being considerate. That's part of what caught me by surprise this time: for some reason this time it meant a huge deal. Seems to have changed her whole way of looking at me from 100% blame for everything to human being with a perspective of my own. It was my female solicitor who picked up on it and said it's a very important thing. Don't ask me: I'm just a bloke.

I did this early on in our relationship and it became natural.  If anything, I swallowed my pride and apologised far too much.  When I didn't want to apologise because I knew I was right, I'd sulk and then forgive her.  Hardly healthy.
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#19
(09-26-2018, 09:35 AM)Fatcat1980 Wrote: many of us on this thread at still in those early stages where we want to rant, to bounce it off the walls, to express our hurt and anger. It's all part of the healing process.

Absolutely and it's the right thing to do. But it would be remiss of me not to a) point out the bigger picture and b) prevent this slipping into gender mud slinging.
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#20
(09-26-2018, 09:35 AM)Fatcat1980 Wrote: Hey Tamagoto, though I accept and agree with virtually everything you've said here, many of us on this thread at still in those early stages where we want to rant, to bounce it off the walls, to express our hurt and anger. It's all part of the healing process.  I, for one, felt like I was through the worst of it. I'd moved on. Left her behind.  Was finding happiness.  But then she moved out this weekend (obviously, it was going to happen, but hadn't so far).  The jealousy came back for several reasons.  I'm watching the kids suffer .  And yes - the betrayal is still incredibly painful for me, especially as she used me for several months to provide her with the lifestyle and freedom that actually allowed her to have the affair.  I didn't deserve that and felt far too much affection, love and respect for her to have done it to her, even though I was also feeling neglected and alienated.

But, in time I will come to terms with it. I will rise above it. I'll forgive.  I might understand but I'm not sure even she does yet.

(09-26-2018, 09:25 AM)Jim Wrote: Hi Mike, Fatcat, Sandman. I was always OK with apologizing too. It was never a problem just part of good manners and being considerate. That's part of what caught me by surprise this time: for some reason this time it meant a huge deal. Seems to have changed her whole way of looking at me from 100% blame for everything to human being with a perspective of my own. It was my female solicitor who picked up on it and said it's a very important thing. Don't ask me: I'm just a bloke.

I did this early on in our relationship and it became natural.  If anything, I swallowed my pride and apologised far too much.  When I didn't want to apologise because I knew I was right, I'd sulk and then forgive her.  Hardly healthy.

Hi fatcat. I am a sulker too. You're right it's not healthy. Your situation seems very difficult: it's like you were dealing with a child all the time. You can't be expected to apologise all the time. Have you looked into transactional analysis at all? It has some interesting things to say about the adult/parent/child modes of inter-relating. Applicable to real life unlike some stuff.
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