Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Update - Court Today
#1
Hi Everyone

My son attended court today (DRA hearing).   They have scheduled another hearing for 3 months time.

I would like to ask a question about indirect contact.  Whilst in court my son advised that he has been sending card and gifts for since October 2017, and in the Section 7 report it recommended "Indirect Contact".  However both the CAFCASS officer and his EX both have said that my grandson has been receiving the gifts and cards, however he is not told who they are from?  The CAFCASS officer said in court, that it is not in the best interest of the child to know who the gifts and cards are from, as my son has never admitted to be aggressive and she feels that it will confuse the child if he is told who the cards are from and then in the long term he never gets to have contact with his father, unless he admits to his past allegations.  I thought the WHOLE point on indirect contact was to have a form of CONTACT and in the future move forward to actual face to face contact.

My son in court today again told the Judge that he is more than willing to accept the allegations and move forward, to attend the CAFCASS courses.  He is willing to do anything to regain contact and see his son again.

I am so furious, that this CAFCASS women kept repeating that if my son doesnt change, he wont see his son, so why start building something thats not going to happen.... (not exact words but thats what she was putting across).

the judge also asked "is the property safe for the child" as in the report it says he burnt his finger on my woodburner (which he did).. The CAFCASS officer said she found the property to be safe...  when she never looked around my house when she visited, stating she doesnt need to see my home as not a house visit, so she lied to the judge completely.

So guys...  await the next report and see what CAFCASS suggest next.  But this women really did speak up for his EX, my son said she should have been her solictor as she was really on the side of his EX and definately not on the side of his SON or MINE>
Reply
#2
So what you are saying that the allegations that been made are actually true what he has done . he has now admitted to them today?

Isnt it a good thing that caffcass officer said your property is safe. If she visited she would of been able to establish that by way.
Is it just Caffcass involved and no Social Services?
Reply
#3
(10-03-2018, 11:07 AM)warwickshire1 Wrote: So what you are saying that the allegations that been made are actually true what he has done . he has now admitted to them today?

Isnt it a good thing that caffcass officer said your property is safe. If she visited she would of been able to establish that by way.
Is it just Caffcass involved and no Social Services?

At Fact Finding hearing earlier this year, the allegations were found to be true by the Judge.   My son as the time, would not admit to any of the allegations, as they were not true.   However, to move forward, at court today he said "Whilst my position and response to those allegations remains the same, I now wish to move this matter forward"  and has asked to be recommended on to a CAFCASS course (Building Bridges) as this seems to be the only way he will ever get to see his son again. 

It is a good thing that the CAFCASS officer said my property was safe, however when she came round I asked her if she would like to see the house and my grandson's bedroom, to which she replied "This is not a home visit and did not need to look around the property".  So she came in the front door and into my kitchen area and thats that.   So to say in court the property is safe (yes a good thing) but also an outright lie.

Just CAFCASS involved not SS.

Also just spoken to my son again...  at the end of the hearing the Judge or CAFCASS have said that he need to show to the court in the next hearing that he does accept the allegations and show that he has changed or is making changes.   How does he do that, he has already stated that he is completing an online nurturing course (suggested by another member) ..  what else can he do?  as all the other courses I have looked into, that would be recognised by the courts and CAFCASS, you need to recommended to the course by CAFCASS to get on them... so confused please Help... 

Now will not see my grandson for Xmas and the indirect contact seems such a waste of time if the EX doesnt even need to tell my grandson that we are sending cards and gifts.

Help.
Reply
#4
I am sure theres a lot more to this case from what i have read so far.

But it seems like caffcass officer wants your son to say i accept courts decision and find a fact hearing results and then thats when caffcass can put him onto a course. whilst hes fighting it in their eyes they cant so that would explain why his child is not been told who cards are from etc. If no course is completed and they cant see any change i guess they are saying there wont be any contact.

The family court system is a big long game. It seems if you attend a find a fact hearing and it goes against you, you have no choice to admit to everything before you can move forward slowly to restoring access and remaining calm. does your son not have a solicitor?
Reply
#5
However both the CAFCASS officer and his EX both have said that my grandson has been receiving the gifts and cards, however he is not told who they are from? The CAFCASS officer said in court, that it is not in the best interest of the child to know who the gifts and cards are from, as my son has never admitted to be aggressive and she feels that it will confuse the child if he is told etc

How can they recommended not telling the child.
Pls feel free to in box me.
Reply
#6
From what i have read from nannykit. If her son doesnt admit to been aggressive or whatever the issues are . i guess once he does there will be a course to do and they will see if you have changed your ways etc as people will assess you, they will have no intention of letting him see his child again if he doesnt.

It seems therefore to me like if u are ruled against. You have to admit to it all or accept it to even make small strides forward. it dont help that often you are judged on the day when you are full of mixed emotions anyway and many preofessionals have barely spoke or seen you ever. The system is in womans favour as they are allowed to behave however they want generally including making false allegations and many counts of parent alienation whilst a dad has to calmly accept all this to get anywhere

im guessing child is very young as well in this case
Reply
#7
(10-03-2018, 12:17 PM)warwickshire1 Wrote: I am sure theres a lot more to this case from what i have read so far.

But it seems like caffcass officer wants your son to say i accept courts decision and find a fact hearing results and then thats when caffcass can put him onto a course. whilst hes fighting it in their eyes they cant so that would explain why his child is not been told who cards are from etc. If no course is completed and they cant see any change i guess they are saying there wont be any contact.

The family court system is a big long game.  It seems if you attend a find a fact hearing and it goes against you, you have no choice to admit to everything before you can move forward slowly to restoring access and remaining calm. does your son not have a solicitor?

My son does not have a solicitor - we really cannot afford to have one.

I really dont know what to suggest next to my son - as he has said in court today that he wants to move forward and be put forward for a course.

If you look back on my previous posts, you can see the whole story.   In the beginning, i really thought this would be an open and shut case, as their was not mention of any DA before we started court process.  The police disclosure came back with no findings of abuse and actually went in our favour as stated by the EX that she had called the police out of spite.  The EX solicitor (Legal aid) was dropped after the police disclosure came back, i presume because they could not continue with the legal aid with out any evidence.   The Witness for EX was her best friend and she said she had been witness to the DV.  However family members who lived in the same street, never saw any DV (EX Stepfather and mother).  The judge summed up the FOF by saying " you have fooled the police and family members, but do not fool me, I believe all allegations to be true. 

To admit to the allegations is really hard as they are vile.  They include attempted abduction, throwing EX down the stairs, strangling her, teaching child to call mother a C**T, not allowing contact with friends and family (even though they lived in the same street), threats to kill her, acts of violence in front of the child.

My son understands that this is the long game, and even if he doesn't accept the allegations, he will need to admit to them, then he will be accepted on the course.

He has been told to email CAFCASS to suggest courses and also needs to show by the next court date (January) that he has made changes.

(10-03-2018, 12:21 PM)asd1270 Wrote: However both the CAFCASS officer and his EX both have said that my grandson has been receiving the gifts and cards, however he is not told who they are from?  The CAFCASS officer said in court, that it is not in the best interest of the child to know who the gifts and cards are from, as my son has never admitted to be aggressive and she feels that it will confuse the child if he is told etc

How can they recommended not telling the child.
Pls feel free to in box me.

The judge did say thats not how indirect contact works? however agreed that my son should admit to the allegations, then he would be able to attend a CAFCASS course.

Really confused, as this is not indirect contact it is zero contact.  so between now and January, we can send cards, letter and gifts, but my grandson will never be told they are from us and the EX is not being told otherwise, is that right?  They are saying that if he doesn;t show he has changed, then they will only order Zero Contact?

I am at my wits end now...  i have gone from hope of contact being resumed, to then hoping for contact centre, to then hoping at least indirect, to no hope what so ever and time is moving on and my grandson now believes we have had not wanted any contact for over a year.
Reply
#8
This is the problem with no solicitor sometimes . some people need one in court. where you wasnt in court when your son and judge was there. i am not suggesting he has , but he may have acted in the wrong way , got frustrated angry in court . your son would of been cross examined as well and judge must of come to conclusion that he has done some of the stuff you said.
If someone was also possibly be found to be caught out or seen to be lying they could just rule against u . If you was in court with him, i assume u wasnt u may have had a better insight to what happened.

positive note is theres no social services involved and had he had representation he may of already been advised to go on a course. best thing to do is i think is accept what they said and do what caffcass want you to do which is the course and mention spip course. someone else might be able to advise other courses u can do , i think they are looking for change. i know things seem hopeless now but it will change in long run. you need to get caffcass on sons side and i think only way is to say he wants to change and be a fantastic dad and do whatever they ask. Been self represented its also how you come accross in court which is really hard for some people. when you got allegations , ex and her solicitor winding u up pressing buttons etc you have to shut off from it all be so calm , polite and 110 % child focused and never run your ex down or even look in her direction. almost got to be like expressionless.

I think you should ring caffcass after speaking to your son and he agrees and see if they can help u get something going before January hearing. Lots of dads on here including myself have been made to do ridiculous things to see children and prevented any way possible especially when solicitors are helping ex partners . delay tactics/adjournments of 3 months at a time is just 1 example.

Grandson wont know much what is going on , hes really young isnt he. have courts not considered letting you see grandson in meantime without your son present. they dont have issues with you so surely you could ask to see him
Reply
#9
(10-03-2018, 06:03 PM)warwickshire1 Wrote: This is the problem with no solicitor sometimes . some people need one in court. where you wasnt in court when your son and judge was there. i am not suggesting he has , but he may have acted in the wrong way , got frustrated angry in court . your son would of been cross examined as well and judge must of come to conclusion that he has done some of the stuff you said.
If someone was also possibly be found to be caught out  or seen to be lying they could just rule against u . If you was in court with him, i assume u wasnt u may have had a better insight to what happened.

positive note is theres no social services involved  and had he had representation he may of already been advised to go on a course.  best thing to do is i think is accept what they said and do what caffcass want you to do which is the course and mention spip course. someone else might be able to advise other courses u can do , i think they are looking for change. i know things seem hopeless now but it will change in long run. you need to get caffcass on sons side and i think only way is to say he wants to change and be a fantastic dad  and do whatever they ask.  Been self represented its also how you come  accross in court which is really hard for some people. when you got allegations , ex  and her solicitor winding u up pressing buttons etc you have to shut off from it all be so calm , polite and 110 % child focused and never run your ex down or even look in her direction. almost got to be like expressionless.

I think you should ring caffcass after speaking to your son and he agrees and see if they can help u get something going before January hearing.  Lots of dads on here including myself have been made to do ridiculous things to see children and prevented any way possible especially when solicitors are helping ex partners . delay tactics/adjournments  of 3 months at a time is just 1 example.

Grandson wont know much what is going on , hes really young isnt he.  have courts not considered letting you see grandson in meantime without your son present. they dont have issues with you so surely you could ask to see him

I agree, my son is only young (24) and he still has that teenage boy attitude (huffs and puffs).   So yes I believe he is not coming across great in court.  I believe when young men get out of their depth, they dont have the experience of life to step back and put their game face on.... this comes with age.

Do you think we should Email CAFCASS with suggestions and put across a heartfelt plea, accepting the allegations and wishing to move on with being 100% child focused.   Again, if he calls them, his CAFCASS lady was really not friendly at all, she was very cold even when i spoke to her at my home - very old time school teacher attitude, hard as stone - i dont feel she will listen to him at all and he will get frustrated again.

I have asked to see my Grandson, however the EX has said you always back your son, so NO CONTACT.  How do I apply to the courts to see my grandson, I have been told Grandparents do not have any rights?
Reply
#10
I believe you can ring CAFCASS up. I accept my behaviour is wrong and am young, i would like to know what i can do to play an active in role in our childs life. I am more than willing to do any course you feel is suitable for me. She may not recommend or do anything when you ring so i know its not nice but you are going to have to wait until January. you need to get this caffcass officer on your side...even if your son says thank you very much for your help anyway. least it will look to her that your son is trying.

I would leave seeing your grandson at moment. however after reading above would it be worth trying to get your sons ex partner onside somehow. they have a child together and you are going to have to communicate and speak until child is 18. What if you said something like he is my son so i naturally am going to defend him. I told him he needs to change and dont always back him even though it seems like it. he is young and we all make mistakes and he wants to better himself as a person and be a dad. Would you allow me to see my grandson somewhen even if it was only me for now, i understand if this is not possible at moment. be nice if you could get her on side then maybe she would allow supervised visits and speed process up.

Just an idea and maybe try and locate some courses in your area u could enrol on before january. anything like that will show that your son is trying and making effort.

I know someone local to me shall i add he was asked to do a course and i think he actually said after been ruled against im not doing it i done nothing wrong. he hasnt seen his children for 5 years now. he seen his ex a short while ago stonefaced she was she said " you know what you got to do "... thing is he just refuses to do it and doesnt see that by refusing hes not seeing children ..its almost like you might as well admit to everything regardless if u done it or not to see your children. Sad
Reply


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  I just finished my statement for the final family court hearing **Update Tamagoto 11 2,329 03-03-2018, 11:49 PM
Last Post: Tamagoto
  Wish me luck, off to court today Charlielovesyou 12 3,149 12-14-2017, 11:51 AM
Last Post: Charlielovesyou
  Update to Position Statement invisibleintellectual 2 1,165 06-13-2017, 05:56 PM
Last Post: invisibleintellectual



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)