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Moving with my daughter - can it backfire?
#1
Hi All,
Hope you can help. Recently I have separated from the mother of my child. It was not a messy separation as we had been drifting anyway but we are an unmarried couple, living together for the whole of our daughters life so far (almost two years) and I am named on the birth certificate so I do have parental responsibility, so I believe. The issue is that it is the mother who has left the home and the child with me (for 5-6 days/nights a week, so I am the primary caregiver at the moment) and I am contemplating relocating at the end of our tenancy elsewhere within the UK, to be closer to my family if I am raising our daughter alone or almost alone. The mother has also said this would be a good idea as her quality of life there would improve etc but my main concern is that if I were to make that move within the UK, take on full parental responsibility of the child (not legally of course, the mother cannot lose her PR) and the mother then changes her mind in a year or two after we are settled and looking at schools etc, can she force me to bring her back to this area? I am afraid to make the step of upheaving our daughters life (thought at 2 years old I am sure she won't notice one bit after a few weeks!) only for it to be potentially reversed in the future. Note that I do not want to take any rights etc away from the mother, there is no need, but I am afraid that as the mother she may have all the power and be able to overwrite this decision in the future. There would be no issues over visitation etc she can visit anytime so I am not trying to force that or stop her in anyway from seeing her daughter, only that she may wake up one day and realise her mistake and my life would be turned upside down once again.

Thank you and I am sorry for the slightly sporadic and indirect nature of this post but it is late and I have had so much going through my mind recently. Hope you can shed some light or point me in the right direction. I am not getting anywhere with internet searches on this as they all seem to centre around the mother having the child (and father leaving), or the mother moving away with the child.
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#2
(12-05-2016, 01:25 AM)DadMK1 Wrote: Hi All,
Hope you can help. Recently I have separated from the mother of my child. It was not a messy separation as we had been drifting anyway but we are an unmarried couple, living together for the whole of our daughters life so far (almost two years) and I am named on the birth certificate so I do have parental responsibility, so I believe. The issue is that it is the mother who has left the home and the child with me (for 5-6 days/nights a week, so I am the primary caregiver at the moment) and I am contemplating relocating at the end of our tenancy elsewhere within the UK, to be closer to my family if I am raising our daughter alone or almost alone. The mother has also said this would be a good idea as her quality of life there would improve etc but my main concern is that if I were to make that move within the UK, take on full parental responsibility of the child (not legally of course, the mother cannot lose her PR) and the mother then changes her mind in a year or two after we are settled and looking at schools etc, can she force me to bring her back to this area? I am afraid to make the step of upheaving our daughters life (thought at 2 years old I am sure she won't notice one bit after a few weeks!) only for it to be potentially reversed in the future. Note that I do not want to take any rights etc away from the mother, there is no need, but I am afraid that as the mother she may have all the power and be able to overwrite this decision in the future. There would be no issues over visitation etc she can visit anytime so I am not trying to force that or stop her in anyway from seeing her daughter, only that she may wake up one day and realise her mistake and my life would be turned upside down once again.

Thank you and I am sorry for the slightly sporadic and indirect nature of this post but it is late and I have had so much going through my mind recently. Hope you can shed some light or point me in the right direction. I am not getting anywhere with internet searches on this as they all seem to centre around the mother having the child (and father leaving), or the mother moving away with the child.

To clear up one of your points, you would not be taking on full parental responsibility. Even if a Child Arrangements Order exists (or a Consent Order covering the Child Arrangements), your ex still has PR. You would in law become the Resident Parent, meaning that you should consider your ex thoughts on things related to the child, but it is your final decision.

While information you might see else where is the other way round, its the same in law either way. Where you both have PR, until a Court Order exists your on the same legal standing.

There is 2 ways forward, depending on if its with her agreement or not.

a,  (if you can agree) A Consent Order, staying the child lives with you, and what contact agreements will happen (even if its just one line to say reasonable contact). Also state on the order that your ex is giving consent for the child to be relocated  closer to xxxx where your family also live.

In this situation, its a case of you having something drawn up, and you both going in court, the Judge making sure you both understand it, and its then made into an Order. If you do not agree on any aspect, then you would be sent back to the normal process (example b below).

b, (if you can not agree), you need to instruct Mediation, as you need  either their "deadlock" or no show letter before you have the right to make a court application (or their agreement not to be followed). You can only go Direct to Court if there is Child Welfare/Protection Issues, there is a risk of the child being removed from the UK while the process is ongoing, if there is a legal reason you both can not be in the same room (Police Bail, None Molestation Order etc) or if the whereabouts of the ex is not known.

In law, once you can evidence what arrangements have been agreed (or ordered by a Court), then it is up to the person wanting to change it to show "significant" reason why it should be looked at again. This can only be anything from AFTER this decision was made (and if not a court order, when contact was last allowed)
Posts made by me are my opinion and any factual information should be checked out. If you do not have a Solicitor, often your local CAB can get you some initial advice.
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#3
(12-05-2016, 05:37 AM)MarkR Wrote:
(12-05-2016, 01:25 AM)DadMK1 Wrote: Hi All,
Hope you can help. Recently I have separated from the mother of my child. It was not a messy separation as we had been drifting anyway but we are an unmarried couple, living together for the whole of our daughters life so far (almost two years) and I am named on the birth certificate so I do have parental responsibility, so I believe. The issue is that it is the mother who has left the home and the child with me (for 5-6 days/nights a week, so I am the primary caregiver at the moment) and I am contemplating relocating at the end of our tenancy elsewhere within the UK, to be closer to my family if I am raising our daughter alone or almost alone. The mother has also said this would be a good idea as her quality of life there would improve etc but my main concern is that if I were to make that move within the UK, take on full parental responsibility of the child (not legally of course, the mother cannot lose her PR) and the mother then changes her mind in a year or two after we are settled and looking at schools etc, can she force me to bring her back to this area? I am afraid to make the step of upheaving our daughters life (thought at 2 years old I am sure she won't notice one bit after a few weeks!) only for it to be potentially reversed in the future. Note that I do not want to take any rights etc away from the mother, there is no need, but I am afraid that as the mother she may have all the power and be able to overwrite this decision in the future. There would be no issues over visitation etc she can visit anytime so I am not trying to force that or stop her in anyway from seeing her daughter, only that she may wake up one day and realise her mistake and my life would be turned upside down once again.

Thank you and I am sorry for the slightly sporadic and indirect nature of this post but it is late and I have had so much going through my mind recently. Hope you can shed some light or point me in the right direction. I am not getting anywhere with internet searches on this as they all seem to centre around the mother having the child (and father leaving), or the mother moving away with the child.

To clear up one of your points, you would not be taking on full parental responsibility. Even if a Child Arrangements Order exists (or a Consent Order covering the Child Arrangements), your ex still has PR. You would in law become the Resident Parent, meaning that you should consider your ex thoughts on things related to the child, but it is your final decision.

While information you might see else where is the other way round, its the same in law either way. Where you both have PR, until a Court Order exists your on the same legal standing.

There is 2 ways forward, depending on if its with her agreement or not.

a,  (if you can agree) A Consent Order, staying the child lives with you, and what contact agreements will happen (even if its just one line to say reasonable contact). Also state on the order that your ex is giving consent for the child to be relocated  closer to xxxx where your family also live.

In this situation, its a case of you having something drawn up, and you both going in court, the Judge making sure you both understand it, and its then made into an Order. If you do not agree on any aspect, then you would be sent back to the normal process (example b below).

b, (if you can not agree), you need to instruct Mediation, as you need  either their "deadlock" or no show letter before you have the right to make a court application (or their agreement not to be followed). You can only go Direct to Court if there is Child Welfare/Protection Issues, there is a risk of the child being removed from the UK while the process is ongoing, if there is a legal reason you both can not be in the same room (Police Bail, None Molestation Order etc) or if the whereabouts of the ex is not known.

In law, once you can evidence what arrangements have been agreed (or ordered by a Court), then it is up to the person wanting to change it to show "significant" reason why it should be looked at again. This can only be anything from AFTER this decision was made (and if not a court order, when contact was last allowed)

Hi Mark, thank you so much for your reply.

I was looking for the right words - Resident Parent. My Ex and I were planning to relocate with our daughter anyway so I hope she sticks to her feelings now and allows me to make the move with our daughter, but without her. If it were the other way around I am not sure I could go through with that though which is why I am hesitant to believe it may happen.

Looks like a consent order is the best way forward in this case, I do want to continue to treat this separation in a civil way.

Thanks so much for the input,
David
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