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Is it all Doom and Gloom?
#1
Sorry for the neggy post but i'm having a panic.

I'm in the very early stages of separating and for some reason i can see very few outcomes that don't see me losing everything.

I know each case can be different but reading around the internet it looks like i'll be screwed.

Will I really;

1) Lose my house

2) Lose my kid

3) The court will allow the soon-to-be ex to take my 13 year old to live in france (She's French)

4) Have to pay "Spousal support" to the lazy cow so she can sit on the sofa watching TV for ever at my expense.

Is it really that bad chaps?...do we lose everything?
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#2
When you ask a question like that, we can only really tell from our own experiences.
Some will say not necessarily, some will say almost definitely to all you questions.

firstly, Will you lose your house
Stack load of factors, MarkR will chirp in with those facts but possibly. Mine was sold up as part of the settlement and proceeds divvied up as suited.

Lose your kid. again stack of factors and possibly having to go through courts to get visitation rights and orders. but you aren't telling us enough info on either of the above to make any informed advice.

For me, my kids denied ME contact so I stayed away at their request, not wanting to inflame an already crappy situation

Are you asking IF the court will allow your ex to leave the country with him or saying this has already be consented to?

Spousal support is a really complex subject and there are lots of factors.
There is no set formula for the calculation of spousal maintenance as there is for the calculation of child maintenance.
When determining whether spousal maintenance should be paid, how much should be paid and the length of time for which it will be paid, the court has regard to the overall circumstances.
In determining the level of maintenance, regard may be had to the parties’ day to day financial commitments including any child maintenance obligations, and how these can be met from the available resources.
The appropriate amount of maintenance varies significantly from case to case, and specialist advice should be sought.
Deciding the amount of spousal maintenance can be difficult though the lack of clear guidance given by the costs.

Because the judge at my case saw how she was with him and she was swearing and kicking off, he ordered me to pay spousal maintenance of £1 per year until the youngest child was 16. so I gave her the £8 there and then. He smirked when I put a tenner on the table and said "keep the change" and said, that's settled in full , thank you. she snatched the tenner off the table and stormed out with her solicitor in tow trying to calm her down

Do we lose everything

well, you lose your dignity for a time. your self esteem. your willingness to carry on.
this will be the single toughest thing you will ever do in your life. Think of every exam, job interview, head teachers visit, wedding planning, house move,that moment she said the baby is coming, every child birth and mortgage application, you have ever done, all thrown into a 6 month gap, that lets you win the lottery and takes it all away from you within 2 minutes.
its like hitting a brick wall at 100 miles an hour, and you wonder if you will ever come out of it.

The fact we are all still here is testimony to the fact you will. it will not be easy. there will be pain. there will be tears and headaches. and no I wont sprinkle fairy dust on the huge fat turd, that divorce is, because you can polish it and sprinkle glitter on it, its still a damn turd, and you will hate it!

And one day you will come out of it all and start to rebuild your life however or whatever you have gone through as your survival instinct will kick in and you will keep on going. You will survive because that's what we do. divorce brings out the worst in people.
You will sort the divorce and one day it will be over and in the past. Take mine....it FEELS like it was decades ago but it was 2008...that only 9 years ago, but I put it out of mind, move on and dont drag it up.
I would say learn to become thick skinned, and build the bridges to get over this. keep that light at the end of the tunnel and think of the future if there's nothing you can do to resolve your marriage.
most of all ...don't give up
We are all hear to bend an ear and shoulder(virtually) to cry on and have come through the turd pile of divorce.

one last thing.
Forgive.
You can forgive and move on. if she is left with her demons to battle then thats her look out. even if it was partly your fault, forgiving her for this will really help you move on, and not be bitter and twisted, like I was. The next person I wanted her to speak to was bloody Satan, I hated her that much. I forgave her in myself and now I just dont care.

Sorry its a long winded one, but thats my feelings from the heart
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#3
Smashing post Drew!!!

Thanks for writing this!

F.
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#4
Drew, thanks sincerely for taking the time to write that...it really helps.
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#5
Epic.
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#6
(01-13-2017, 09:13 PM)Lincoln Wrote: Sorry for the neggy post but i'm having a panic.

I'm in the very early stages of separating and for some reason i can see very few outcomes that don't see me losing everything.

I know each case can be different but reading around the internet it looks like i'll be screwed.

Will I really;

1) Lose my house

2) Lose my kid

3) The court will allow the soon-to-be ex to take my 13 year old to live in france (She's French)

4) Have to pay "Spousal support" to the lazy cow so she can sit on the sofa watching TV for ever at my expense.

Is it really that bad chaps?...do we lose everything?


1, More detail is needed. Is it owned, private rent or social housing. Who's name is it in. If on mortgage, how many years is the agreement, and how far into it are you now. If it was to be sold, how much profit are you looking at before its shared out?

2 and 3 you need to go legal on ASAP.
Apply to Court under exemption from Mediation, Risk of relocation of the Child outside Jurisdiction of the UK Courts while proceedings are in progress.

You want an Interim Prohibited Steps Court Order stopping the child being taken out of the UK while a Child Arrangements Application is heard.

Also apply for Child Arrangements. You need to decide if you want typical contact along the lines of Friday till Sunday every 2 weeks, and up to half school holidays, more towards shared care, with mid week visits or stay overs or if your going to contest residency.

As the child is 13, this might come down to a "Wishes and Desires" report, while the child is asked what they want to do. This will be a few meetings with Cafcass or Social Services, without either parent present (normally at school).

UK Law requires you to have the consent from everyone with PR to take a child out of the UK, unless a Child Arrangements Order exists, and then it only gives the resident parent the right for up to 28 days holiday, what can not be in contact time unless agreed in advance. However, this law is no recognised by some countries, so that is why you need Prohibited Steps, what is. If this type of order is broke, most countries who are in The Hague Conversion will help get the child back if its ignored.

Once the Child Arrangements are sorted, if the Judge gives you contact, then they need to take a view on if to extend the Prohibited Steps, taking into account your ex might have valid reasons for wanting the child to holiday in France. However, should the child not return, the Child Arrangements Order would be enough to get the child back to the UK, and your ex to face charges.

4, A lot depends on what position she was in at the start of the relationship, and where she was at the end. If she can show she was disadvantaged then a Judge will have to take a view on how long it would take to get her back into that position.  Only Child Support and Child Benefit are not considered for means tested benefits. Any other income like spouse maintenance is, so it would reduce her Income Related JSA or Housing Benefit, and be treated as income for Tax Credits.
Posts made by me are my opinion and any factual information should be checked out. If you do not have a Solicitor, often your local CAB can get you some initial advice.
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#7
Amazing post Drew - couldn't have said it better myself.
I do have one question:
"For me, my kids denied ME contact so I stayed away at their request, not wanting to inflame an already crappy situation"
I'm in the same boat - teenagers - does it ever get any better?
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#8
(01-18-2017, 07:26 PM)TeamGB Wrote: Amazing post Drew - couldn't have said it better myself.
I do have one question:
"For me, my kids denied ME contact so I stayed away at their request, not wanting to inflame an already crappy situation"
I'm in the same boat - teenagers - does it ever get any better?

Who knows

My eldest is 28. Made contact, got the expected "why leave, hate you/love you/hate you/im in trouble/im a junkie give me money" feedback. In the end I refused to give money for drugs or let her move in with me(in a two bedroom flat with me my mrs now and small dog). From that point i was royally told to F**K off and never talk to her again.     Charming!

My middle son is 20 and has mental health issues (according to my daughter) and is very angry at the world. I tried to contact via facebook and was blocked almost straight away.

My youngest is 16 and I have resigned to do what my dad said in counsel to me.

Let them have their life and be happy in as much as they can. If they dont want to see you so be it. they will one day want answers and will come find you. but if they say no now, don't be the over proud dad demanding his rights and see them every two weeks when at that point in time they are just angry at you and really do not want to see you.

The anger will subside over time and they will come if they want.

Now
That was the hardest most heartbreaking decision I ever made. and its not the right one for everyone, but it was for me at that time.

One thing is for sure, there will be another round of tough questions to answer if they do, and I will do it honestly as I did before. I know from a close friend that the ex has been throwing lies out about me to cover her own misdemeanours.

They are teens. they dont even know if they want shreddies or toast for breakfast and cant be relied upon to change their own underwear at regular intervals (we were all like it). What make you think they can make a decision about such a life changing thing such as contact with dad?
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#9
(01-19-2017, 07:43 AM)Drew65 Wrote:
(01-18-2017, 07:26 PM)TeamGB Wrote: Amazing post Drew - couldn't have said it better myself.
I do have one question:
"For me, my kids denied ME contact so I stayed away at their request, not wanting to inflame an already crappy situation"
I'm in the same boat - teenagers - does it ever get any better?

Who knows

My eldest is 28. Made contact, got the expected "why leave, hate you/love you/hate you/im in trouble/im a junkie give me money" feedback. In the end I refused to give money for drugs or let her move in with me(in a two bedroom flat with me my mrs now and small dog). From that point i was royally told to F**K off and never talk to her again.     Charming!

My middle son is 20 and has mental health issues (according to my daughter) and is very angry at the world. I tried to contact via facebook and was blocked almost straight away.

My youngest is 16 and I have resigned to do what my dad said in counsel to me.

Let them have their life and be happy in as much as they can. If they dont want to see you so be it. they will one day want answers and will come find you. but if they say no now, don't be the over proud dad demanding his rights and see them every two weeks when at that point in time they are just angry at you and really do not want to see you.

The anger will subside over time and they will come if they want.

Now
That was the hardest most heartbreaking decision I ever made. and its not the right one for everyone, but it was for me at that time.

One thing is for sure, there will be another round of tough questions to answer if they do, and I will do it honestly as I did before. I know from a close friend that the ex has been throwing lies out about me to cover her own misdemeanours.

They are teens. they dont even know if they want shreddies or toast for breakfast and cant be relied upon to change their own underwear at regular intervals (we were all like it). What make you think they can make a decision about such a life changing thing such as contact with dad?
 Thanks for this Drew,I am in this boat at the moment with 3 children over 14 who don't want contact and 2 under 8 who I am fighting through courts to see.The advice from your dad is gold! I just hope that in time my boys will see through the crap my ex is feeding them and finally lose the anger and come looking the truth.
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#10
Drew & Davy, we are all in the same boat and have the same issues - I had no idea going into this that teenagers could be so tricky but the common factor is the mum and the poison fed to them under the guise of "they deserve to know the truth".
My Mum & Dad have been married for over 50 years, my Dad has given me similar advice - in so much as don't force them to do something they don't want to do - allow each other to get on with your own lives - but don't give up. Courts are useless with teenagers and would only alienate further.
What hurts the most is that the kids seemingly forget about all the good times (of which there were many - I spent way more time with them than their mum did), and only ever seem to remember anything bad they can find to dwell on. All trace of me has been removed from my kids lives including my wider family (yep one of my kids even refuses to ever see my parents again - which given her total naivety about life and death, she may well get exactly what she wants).
Giving them their own space is the most painful thing that I have ever done - though I keep messaging and trying to keep myself visible to them in whatever way I can though most is blocked or ignored. I feel somewhat bereft and helpless so it is some relief to know there are others in the same boat even though I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
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