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How long does a supervision order last and what happens afterwards?
#1
Asking on behalf my partner, who is a father to two children. Apologies for the huge essay and for being female. I'm dealing with it as I can keep a clearer head and sense of detachment from the issue, which my partner can't manage.

My partner ended up divorced as a result of coming out as a transgender woman back in 2008-2009 ish.

The case ended up in the family courts after the ex-wife send the eldest child to school with bruises and scratches, initially the children were removed from said ex due to violence, they were placed with various relatives, the care system, foster care before finally being placed back with the ex wife and a court ruling that states they except that the ex was overly violent to the eldest child but that my partner being trans is emotional abuse, a supervision order was made in 2011 that included social workers visiting the ex to ensure that the children came to no harm, but my partner was given limited contact of 1.5 hours a month at a contact centre.

This order was renewed for one year in 2012 but at this point the paper trail that I have access to stops as my partner kind of lost it at this point, attempted suicide and ended up in psychiatric care as a result. She stopped filing the papers and therefore I don't know what else has gone on. I didn't come into the picture until 2014.

Contact was restored in 2015 after a bureaucratic cock-up by the children's school who called my partner rather than the ex, and asked us to pick up the eldest who was nearing the point of being expelled. Since then we've been seeing them once a fortnight for 3 hours, still supervised but now by the ex's boyfriend.

Not gonna lie, neither of us like the guy (sorry but I have a problem with a person who think's it's ok to use racial slurs within earshot of the kids) but I do appreciate what he's doing by agreeing to do this. He doesn't have to do it, but knows what it's like to have your kids taken from you for a bullshit reason by the family courts. Half the time he doesn't even bother to actually supervise as he recognises it's pointless. Sometimes he brings his own lad along and they do their own thing, or just spends an hour or so on the 2p machines.

The eldest has massively improved since contact was being restored, and while still a pain in the arse (because teenager) is no-longer under threat of being expelled. The youngest is still confused by the gender issue, which is not helped by consistent dead-naming and references to as male by the parents the youngest lives with.

My partner's uderstanding is that the supervision order ends at age 14, which is approaching quite soon. They are suddenly insistent it ends until 18. According to the CAB a supervision order lasts for a maximum of four years, but nowhere does anything state what happens when it ends. By this calculation my partner should have had unsupervised access from 2015.

Who is actually correct here, and if we're correct what sort of process do we go through to actually get access. Are there likely to be any other rulings made alongside a supervision order that last for a lot longer? How would I go about finding out for definite what orders are in place?
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#2
(02-18-2017, 08:47 PM)AnneOnymous Wrote: Asking on behalf my partner, who is a father to two children. Apologies for the huge essay and for being female. I'm dealing with it as I can keep a clearer head and sense of detachment from the issue, which my partner can't manage.

My partner ended up divorced as a result of coming out as a transgender woman  back in 2008-2009 ish.

The case ended up in the family courts after the ex-wife send the eldest child to school with bruises and scratches, initially the children were removed from said ex due to violence, they were placed with various relatives, the care system, foster care before finally being placed back with the ex wife and a court ruling that states they except that the ex was overly violent to the eldest child but that my partner being trans is emotional abuse, a supervision order was made in 2011 that included social workers visiting the ex to ensure that the children came to no harm, but my partner was given limited contact of 1.5 hours a month at a contact centre.

This order was renewed for one year in 2012 but at this point the paper trail that I have access to stops as my partner kind of lost it at this point, attempted suicide and ended up in psychiatric care as a result. She stopped filing the papers and therefore I don't know what else has gone on. I didn't come into the picture until 2014.

Contact was restored in 2015 after a bureaucratic cock-up by the children's school who called my partner rather than the ex, and asked us to pick up the eldest who was nearing the point of being expelled. Since then we've been seeing them once a fortnight for 3 hours, still supervised but now by the ex's boyfriend.

Not gonna lie, neither of us like the guy (sorry but I have a problem with a person who think's it's ok to use racial slurs within earshot of the kids) but I do appreciate what he's doing by agreeing to do this. He doesn't have to do it, but knows what it's like to have your kids taken from you for a bullshit reason by the family courts. Half the time he doesn't even bother to actually supervise as he recognises it's pointless. Sometimes he brings his own lad along and they do their own thing, or just spends an hour or so on the 2p machines.

The eldest has massively improved since contact was being restored, and while still a pain in the arse (because teenager) is no-longer under threat of being expelled. The youngest is still confused by the gender issue, which is not helped by consistent dead-naming and references to as male by the parents the youngest lives with.

My partner's uderstanding is that the supervision order ends at age 14, which is approaching quite soon. They are suddenly insistent it ends until 18. According to the CAB a supervision order lasts for a maximum of four years, but nowhere does anything state what happens when it ends. By this calculation my partner should have had unsupervised access from 2015.

Who is actually correct here, and if we're correct what sort of process do we go through to actually get access. Are there likely to be any other rulings made alongside a supervision order that last for a lot longer? How would I go about finding out for definite what orders are in place?

I surgest you take legal advise on this, as we are not Solicitors.

If you can not afford one, the local CAB is a good starting point, as often they can get you a free 30 min chat with one.
Posts made by me are my opinion and any factual information should be checked out. If you do not have a Solicitor, often your local CAB can get you some initial advice.
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#3
(02-19-2017, 08:25 AM)MarkR Wrote:
(02-18-2017, 08:47 PM)AnneOnymous Wrote: Asking on behalf my partner, who is a father to two children. Apologies for the huge essay and for being female. I'm dealing with it as I can keep a clearer head and sense of detachment from the issue, which my partner can't manage.

My partner ended up divorced as a result of coming out as a transgender woman  back in 2008-2009 ish.

The case ended up in the family courts after the ex-wife send the eldest child to school with bruises and scratches, initially the children were removed from said ex due to violence, they were placed with various relatives, the care system, foster care before finally being placed back with the ex wife and a court ruling that states they except that the ex was overly violent to the eldest child but that my partner being trans is emotional abuse, a supervision order was made in 2011 that included social workers visiting the ex to ensure that the children came to no harm, but my partner was given limited contact of 1.5 hours a month at a contact centre.

This order was renewed for one year in 2012 but at this point the paper trail that I have access to stops as my partner kind of lost it at this point, attempted suicide and ended up in psychiatric care as a result. She stopped filing the papers and therefore I don't know what else has gone on. I didn't come into the picture until 2014.

Contact was restored in 2015 after a bureaucratic cock-up by the children's school who called my partner rather than the ex, and asked us to pick up the eldest who was nearing the point of being expelled. Since then we've been seeing them once a fortnight for 3 hours, still supervised but now by the ex's boyfriend.

Not gonna lie, neither of us like the guy (sorry but I have a problem with a person who think's it's ok to use racial slurs within earshot of the kids) but I do appreciate what he's doing by agreeing to do this. He doesn't have to do it, but knows what it's like to have your kids taken from you for a bullshit reason by the family courts. Half the time he doesn't even bother to actually supervise as he recognises it's pointless. Sometimes he brings his own lad along and they do their own thing, or just spends an hour or so on the 2p machines.

The eldest has massively improved since contact was being restored, and while still a pain in the arse (because teenager) is no-longer under threat of being expelled. The youngest is still confused by the gender issue, which is not helped by consistent dead-naming and references to as male by the parents the youngest lives with.

My partner's uderstanding is that the supervision order ends at age 14, which is approaching quite soon. They are suddenly insistent it ends until 18. According to the CAB a supervision order lasts for a maximum of four years, but nowhere does anything state what happens when it ends. By this calculation my partner should have had unsupervised access from 2015.

Who is actually correct here, and if we're correct what sort of process do we go through to actually get access. Are there likely to be any other rulings made alongside a supervision order that last for a lot longer? How would I go about finding out for definite what orders are in place?

I surgest you take legal advise on this, as we are not Solicitors.

If you can not afford one, the local CAB is a good starting point, as often they can get you a free 30 min chat with one.

The importance of contact between a child and their parents is fully recognised by the courts and it is arguable that such an approach applies just as fully to transgendered parents. Pertinent authorities on contact between transgendered parents and their children are, however, few and far between. In the authorities noted above, contact was not wholly ruled out but did not resume within those proceedings and the outlook was generally bleak.

In Re C, Lord Justice Thorpe went further by suggesting that the father's application for contact was potentially unwise. He noted:
'The father might well in this case have sought not an order for contact; he might have accepted that that was something that could only develop in a, perhaps, distant future of the children's own volition; he might have sought only the order to ensure that they were protected from chance discovery of the reality' (paragraph 12).
It is fair to note that there had been no contact in this matter for five years, contact apparently ceasing when the father began to live as a woman. Proceedings also seem to have been put on hold whilst the father underwent gender reassignment surgery. Given the inevitable delays incurred when a parent transitions to another gender – as well as the time and emotional effort often required for the other parent to accept that change – it is a sad reality that most cases may involve a significant break in contact.

One exception is a situation such as that set out in Re T, where contact has continued in the new gender role but without the child knowing the relation between the parent and him or herself. The court held that the 'critical issue in the case is whether or not and in what circumstances the applicant should be able to resume her relationship with her son. That is the crucial issue. ...S is rising eight, he will be eight at the end of this year, and of course he has his entire life before him. I agree with the applicant when she submits that it is very important that we should now, if possible, get things right so that the relationship can be restored at an early stage, and S can form – or re-form, I should say –  a proper and sensible relationship with the applicant'.

The likelihood for contact succeeding will inevitably turn on the preexisting and current relationship between the transgendered parent and their child. In a case where one parent is immovably hostile to the idea of contact with the transgendered parent, it is unfortunately doubtful that contact will resume in an organic way. Practitioners representing transgendered clients might derive some small assistance from the hope expressed within Re T that a child should form or resume their relationship with a transgendered parent where possible.
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#4
But what happens when a supervision order expires?

Surely someone here has been through that?
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