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No contact with children SS + school issues
#1
Hello,

I am unsure whether this is the correct sub forum to be posting in but it does involve contact and this forum seems rather more active so I am hoping for advice. I have not seen my children for three months. Daughter (11) son (6 - autistic), I have parental responsibility.

A referral was made by my child's school teacher to social services roughly three months ago. The referral asked for an 'independent' person be available for my daughter to speak to as she disclosed some allegations against me. The referral was rejected. I have seen the referral and it is very vague, stating that 'her dad had been hurting her and calling her stupid'. No information in regards to how I had hurt her or how often I'd apparently hurt her. I will say now she is 11 years old and I haven't laid a single finger on her at any time in her life. 

My ex's Solicitor sent me a letter stating that my ex has refused me access to both my children due to the disclosures made by my daughter. She states that the only reason Social Services are not investigating is because contact has been severed. She also states that my daughter no longer wants any contact with me at all. My son is autistic and cannot communicate well enough to be involved.

I contacted the teacher who made the referral for her to clarify the situation and her vague referral. I also asked her if the claim made in regards to SS not chasing the matter up due to no contact was true. She did not reply to my questions, she sent a standard e-mail confirming she had made the referral.

I then contacted Social Services, after 7 calls over 5 days they finally got back to me this evening. They stated that 'due to the fact I could potentially be a threat to my children' they could not give me any information at all. 

I have a Solicitor. We applied to mediation but this was rejected by the mediator has we have been twice before and my ex has clearly broken mediation and has stated several times that she will not adhere to any agreement made that isn't a court order. So they sent Court referral and we are now in the process of setting a court date.

But I dont understand, I cannot fathom, how the school and social services can both deny me any information at all about any accusation made against me. How it is seemingly acceptable for my ex to sever contact with me on the basis of an accusation that I have no been asked to defend or respond to. I have not been contacted by anyone at all. It's all knife and dagger stuff, decisions made behind my back without so much as even informing me!!!

I have put in a freedom of information request to Social services, but they informed me they do not have to share any information with me if they do not want to. 

Any advice at all on what to do next? How can I extract information from the school a they are clearly unwilling to respond to me or confirm/deny anything, what are my legal rights in this?

Thanks alot for any help.
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#2
Mark and Fris would probably be the best to answer your questions

but from what i understand you have PR which means by law you are entitled to be involved with your kids medically and educationally

but normally when SS file a report they are meant to explain each point and if not understood by you then i thought you would be entitled to ask them to explain there reasoning
maybe ask to speak to someone higher up in the SS services ladder or my step would be contacting your local MP i have found in the past that a local MP can be quite beneficial
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#3
Hi,

You are fighting a battle you are not going to win. The School Teacher and Social Service is not your problem.

Your problem is that your daughter has made allegations and apparently states that she does not want to have contact anymore. That is your war you need to fight now.

You say your ex does not accept anything other than court orders and I assume contact has been regulated by a court order.

What does this court say about the contact you can have with your children?

What has your lawyer recommended?

F.
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#4
in my opinion your daughter needs to be crossed examined properly everyone knows the main reason for these sorts of problems is paternal alienation and your ex could be the one that started putting these thoughts into her head so maybe ask your solicitor if theres another route you can go

SS and schools are normally on the mothers side so you need a neutral person who will not pick sides
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#5
(03-15-2017, 07:39 PM)Frisbos Wrote: Hi,

You are fighting a battle you are not going to win. The School Teacher and Social Service is not your problem.

Your problem is that your daughter has made allegations and apparently states that she does not want to have contact anymore. That is your war you need to fight now.

You say your ex does not accept anything other than court orders and I assume contact has been regulated by a court order.

What does this court say about the contact you can have with your children?

What has your lawyer recommended?

F.

Hello, 

Thank you for your reply. 

In regards to the school and social services, I am wanting them to explain what 'hurting' means. The is no explanation there, just a simple sentence, and I am at a loss as to what it can be. 

We do not have a court order, we had an agreement through a Solicitor that was every other weekend and some holidays. My ex cut contact two years ago because of some things my daughter was saying to her (Said I was calling her stupid & ugly). I arranged mediation with the best recommended mediator I could find. The mediator (without much issue) found that much of what my daughter was saying was purely fabricated & much else just gross distortion. She recommended contact be increased to 2/3 weekends and half of holidays. I was really pleased with mediation in fact, she listened to both sides, I had an ample amount of evidence to prove my daughters claims were untrue and the mediator saw everything for what it was.

But after both mediation sessions, even though my ex stuck by the agreement 90% of the time, she would arrange holidays during my weekends, and book things over half term without giving me the chance to have them. It was then that she stated that she didnt have to stick to any agreement that wasnt a signed legal documents, she repeated this everytime she broke the agreement..

My Solicitor right now is away for a few days, but before she went away she send she was sorting the Court papers.

(03-15-2017, 07:48 PM)cornishguy91 Wrote: in my opinion your daughter needs to be crossed examined properly everyone knows the main reason for these sorts of problems is paternal alienation and your ex could be the one that started putting these thoughts into her head so maybe ask your solicitor if theres another route you can go

SS and schools are normally on the mothers side so you need a neutral person who will not pick sides

Yes, I have many text messages going back 6 years stating that my ex's ultimate aim to to sever contact between myself and my children. She's never hid that was her aim. 

It's strange, because I am 100% sure if my daughter was asked if I had ever hurt her she would tell the truth and say no. My partner (also a teacher and in a position of care), isn't so sure. She said 50/50. And tells me not to under estimate the influence her mother has..
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#6
Hi,

Ok. In the absence of any court order we can rule out the option of enforcement.

It has been very bad case management from your previous lawyer to not take the agreement you had reached with your ex to court for a consent order, really unprofessional.

Now you have to do it all over again. Only court orders are gold, letters from lawyers which are not endorsed from court are completely worthless.

Your lawyer is going to apply for a child arrangement order on the basis and level of contact you had before.

Keep all this simple and do not mention anything about those allegations. It is your ex which needs to come up with a reason as to why contact can not happen anymore.

At that point she must disclose evidence or at least you can ask to have the documents she is relying her case on to be disclosed to you.

It will then go as normal route. CAFCASS will be asked to do safeguarding checks and maybe depending on how severe the allegations are there will be a finding of fact.

Your daughter is at an age where they will consider her feelings at some stage but bearing in mind that she is entering a difficult and new phase in her life which makes this all not more straight forward.

What is your feeling on this? Could this be a cry for attention from your daughter?
How was your relationship so far?

It is important to quickly get a grip on your case once in court.

Is this made up by the ex you need to attack there.

If your daughter has said thing like that then what could be a reason for it? Find that reason and attack here.

F.
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#7
frisbos you forgot to mention that Cafcass safeguarding report has every bit of information in it so if your daughter has made allegations then it will come up on the safeguarding report which the cafcass officer will explain if asked

atleast that way you will get some closure on the matter and then itll all come out in court
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#8
(03-15-2017, 08:19 PM)Frisbos Wrote: Hi,

Ok. In the absence of any court order we can rule out the option of enforcement.

It has been very bad case management from your previous lawyer to not take the agreement you had reached with your ex to court for a consent order, really unprofessional.

Now you have to do it all over again. Only court orders are gold, letters from lawyers which are not endorsed from court are completely worthless.

Your lawyer is going to apply for a child arrangement order on the basis and level of contact you had before.

Keep all this simple and do not mention anything about those allegations. It is your ex which needs to come up with a reason as to why contact can not happen anymore.

At that point she must disclose evidence or at least you can ask to have the documents she is relying her case on to be disclosed to you.

It will then go as normal route. CAFCASS will be asked to do safeguarding checks and maybe depending on how severe the allegations are there will be a finding of fact.

Your daughter is at an age where they will consider her feelings at some stage but bearing in mind that she is entering a difficult and new phase in her life which makes this all not more straight forward.

What is your feeling on this? Could this be a cry for attention from your daughter?
How was your relationship so far?

It is important to quickly get a grip on your case once in court.

Is this made up by the ex you need to attack there.

If your daughter has said thing like that then what could be a reason for it? Find that reason and attack here.

F.

Sorry I missed that bit out, my Solicitor did send a letter proposing that contact be re established as before, she stated that no agency or the school had contacted me in regards to any investigation, and therefore we see no reason why contact cannot be re established. It was then my ex's Solicitor replied stating that due to the disclosures made by my daughter she was not willing to re establish contact, and that my daughter does not want direct contact.

The 'evidence' she disclosed was the email from the teacher to social services requesting a referral. (the one I have later found was rejected). No further evidence was provided. If I can reply requested the evidence as you stated then I will have my solicitor do this. (This was the kind of advice I was looking for especially thank you).

My relationship with my daughter has always been really good. I have been with my partner for 5 years now and they get on really well. My ex met a new man 18 months ago and things have started to sour since then. He has his own business and splashes the cash on my children. Expensive holidays etc. I am not without money but I do not believe in spoiling children. They've only just come back from the USA after having several expensive holidays last year. She has another holiday this month as well. In her house she gets paid money for doing things like tidying her room or washing the pots. She has all the toys money can buy..

As my house she is expected to do things (that we all had to do when young, clean room, bed, put clothes away etc), she doesnt get paid and shes constantly arguing that she should be. She refuses to do this unless I pay her 'like her mum does'. 

On top of this, and this is a more recent thing, she is struggling with school work so over the last few months I have sat her down for 3-4 hours per weekend to learn for her SAT's, which she is heading to fail currently. She hates this, she wants to sit on her tablet watching Youtube all day. I try to explain the importance of learning and education, but all she tells me is 'My mum says I will be a famous actress and I believe her not you'. The weekend when this 'incident' happened, she had an outburst, that her mum had told her to ignore me because she's going to be a famous writer and writers dont need to pass their SATs because they sell books.

That's the reason in a nutshell - my daughter has a terrible attitude, is spoilt rotten, unless she is praised to high heaven gets really upset. So as I try to inject some realism into her, she begins to despise me. She told me some weeks BEFORE THIS INCIDENT that she doesn't want to come anymore because I 'upset her when I tell her she isnt good enough' (referring to her current academic ability). 

The worst thing to come out of all this is that what she has done here has cut me off from my 6 year old son who isn't involved in any of this.
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#9
if your ex is telling her that shes going to be a famous writer or actress then in my opinion that is child abuse

shes building up her childs hopes and in fact your daughter is going to come crashing down for sure 10000s of people try to become an actor every year

maybe 1 or 2 make it if they are lucky

so what does your ex think your daughter has that the other 10000s dont

and just so you know

writers and actors normally do well at school
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#10
Hi,

To make this clear again:

Do not ask for disclosure of anything unless your ex comes up with it herself.
It is strategically a bad idea to go to court and to ask for contact and at the same time ask for disclosure of documents which may harm your case.

You need to let this go up until your ex brings this into the court arena herself. Only then you ask for disclosure but the judge will do this anyway.

It is your house, so your rules. Easy as that.

But you need to point out, that the behaviour changed since mum has a new partner. This can be of relevance.

Have you met this guy?
Does anybody else know him?

Sometimes abuse in whatever form (emotional, physical, sexual...) does happen and mum turns a back on it. It then often is a case that children vent this off blaming the separated parent in order to demonstrate loyalty with the residing parent.

I am not suggesting that this is the reason in your case but something trigged this behaviour. It's starts with little things like that and if your child keeps doing this it must be looked into in much much more detail.

F.
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