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Shared Child care
#1
Hi all I am looking for some advice?
 
Some history 
 
My ex-wife left me 4 years ago, I have remarried since (met my now wife after we had separated) and we have been sharing the kids, Son 11 (12 in May) and daughter 13, since. She work a shift paten and over the last 4 years I have accommodated her shifts and the kids have stayed with me and my wife when she is at work or basically when I’m told I can have them. I have asked over the last 2 year can we have equal number of days but have been told, point blank NO. only 8 days in it but that is 8 more days I would get to see my kids!!!
 
my dilemma
Last year my son started asking if he can come and live with us so I suggested he speak to his mum as we would need to discuss it, he has since told both me and my wife that his mum told him he could choose when he was 12. so we have put it on the back burner until now.
 
The ex's new shift start in April, so last month after talking with my son to make sure he still wants to and that he is not trying to play us against each other, I sent her an email laying out a plan for our son that he was happy with, he sat with me and we wrote the email, and asked he to look over it and listen to what he has to say. Again I/We were told NO nothing will be changing and that she will be the primary carer and that the kids would be living with her until 18. since then my son has come to our house after school on a couple of occasions and messaged her to say he is staying at mine and that he didn’t want to call her because he knew she would shout at him.
I have spoken to my son and asked him what was said to him and what he took from the chat with his mum and all he took from it was NO you cant! and nothing since despite me sending 2 more emails in reply.
 
I have now requested the plan for him again and have now been told nothing will be changing and what reasons do I want them for 8 more days. Might I add that if they are with me more days her CSA payments would go down.
 
My son doesn’t want to go there at all but I have told him he needs to if only for a couple of day a week as she is his mum and that is the right thing to do.  on previous occasions I have had to prise his hands from the banisters and man handle him into and out of the car to get him there. I am now not willing to put both him and me through this trauma any more as it is not good for anyone.
 
What can I do and where do I stand?  (at present there is no court or legal obligations) I can't force my son to go if he is upset by it every time we tell him it is very deflating seeing him so down. 

hope this all makes sence  Sad
Reply
#2
Few thoughts

You have a family based agreement so as you were married at birth of kid, or on Birth Cert, you both have equal co-parenting responsibility
You seem to be getting the time it suits your wife shifts but as non resident parent (if arrangements were formalized) you'd get the time YOU were available so make sure you're not being used as a baby sitter - that said I'm sure you are delighted to have them whenever ... like we all are :-)

To fomalise it, would mean mediation, then court if you couldn't agree... would be expensive and inflammatory (if you used solicitors... you can self represent but read on)

If formalized (via eventual court order) you'd get every other weekend plus a couple of nights in the week if practical... is that what you get now or do you have more... could be a reduction if your currently get 40-50%

Your ex has a point (bare with me)... what reasons do you have... if it went to court, you would need REAL reasons to change something that is working, however in England after 10 years of age the kids point of view would be considered (remember 10 year olds change their mind A LOT) . In Scotland its 12 years of age

Would the siblings living apart be a good thing to do?

Others will pop into the forum and tell us different valuable opinions but I see it as:
It's possible (not sure how likely) but you need to agree this with the ex
If she doesn't agree you'll need mediation and then court
Ex is understandably worried about CMS reduction ... but that shouldn't be your objective
Kids opinions may be taken into account
You're going to need some strong reasons if you go to court why something is changing after working for 4 years

On the positive, sounds like this is something that might be going to happen naturally as he gets older. Legally as you're on the same footing as her, if he turns up at your house and falls asleep / refuses to move his ass.... nothing really anyone can do ;-)
Reply
#3
(03-20-2017, 12:02 PM)si3624 Wrote: Hi all I am looking for some advice?
 
Some history 
 
My ex-wife left me 4 years ago, I have remarried since (met my now wife after we had separated) and we have been sharing the kids, Son 11 (12 in May) and daughter 13, since. She work a shift paten and over the last 4 years I have accommodated her shifts and the kids have stayed with me and my wife when she is at work or basically when I’m told I can have them. I have asked over the last 2 year can we have equal number of days but have been told, point blank NO. only 8 days in it but that is 8 more days I would get to see my kids!!!
 
my dilemma
Last year my son started asking if he can come and live with us so I suggested he speak to his mum as we would need to discuss it, he has since told both me and my wife that his mum told him he could choose when he was 12. so we have put it on the back burner until now.
 
The ex's new shift start in April, so last month after talking with my son to make sure he still wants to and that he is not trying to play us against each other, I sent her an email laying out a plan for our son that he was happy with, he sat with me and we wrote the email, and asked he to look over it and listen to what he has to say. Again I/We were told NO nothing will be changing and that she will be the primary carer and that the kids would be living with her until 18. since then my son has come to our house after school on a couple of occasions and messaged her to say he is staying at mine and that he didn’t want to call her because he knew she would shout at him.
I have spoken to my son and asked him what was said to him and what he took from the chat with his mum and all he took from it was NO you cant! and nothing since despite me sending 2 more emails in reply.
 
I have now requested the plan for him again and have now been told nothing will be changing and what reasons do I want them for 8 more days. Might I add that if they are with me more days her CSA payments would go down.
 
My son doesn’t want to go there at all but I have told him he needs to if only for a couple of day a week as she is his mum and that is the right thing to do.  on previous occasions I have had to prise his hands from the banisters and man handle him into and out of the car to get him there. I am now not willing to put both him and me through this trauma any more as it is not good for anyone.
 
What can I do and where do I stand?  (at present there is no court or legal obligations) I can't force my son to go if he is upset by it every time we tell him it is very deflating seeing him so down. 

hope this all makes sence  Sad
The starting point for this one will be knowing if the Child is located in England, Scotland, Ireland or Wales.

Also, how are your arrangements in place? (Any Court Order, Formal Document etc).

What are the typical arrangements right now, say over a month? Also, over school holidays?

There is a legal way forward with this one, and even if you can not get residency, you should be able to increase contact.

Contact is about the Non Residents availability, legally the preferred days and times of the Resident Parent does not come into it. While its up to her to arrangement and pay for any childcare, if its in use, you can ask a court for that time in addition to normal contact.
Posts made by me are my opinion and any factual information should be checked out. If you do not have a Solicitor, often your local CAB can get you some initial advice.
Reply
#4
(03-20-2017, 12:27 PM)LTCDAD Wrote: Few thoughts

You have a family based agreement so as you were married at birth of kid, or on Birth Cert, you both have equal co-parenting responsibility
You seem to be getting the time it suits your wife shifts but as non resident parent (if arrangements were formalized) you'd get the time YOU were available so make sure you're not being used as a baby sitter - that said I'm sure you are delighted to have them whenever ... like we all are :-)

To fomalise it, would mean mediation, then court if you couldn't agree... would be expensive and inflammatory (if you used solicitors... you can self represent but read on)

If formalized (via eventual court order) you'd get every other weekend plus a couple of nights in the week if practical... is that what you get now or do you have more... could be a reduction if your currently get 40-50%

Your ex has a point (bare with me)... what reasons do you have... if it went to court, you would need REAL reasons to change something that is working, however in England after 10 years of age the kids point of view would be considered (remember 10 year olds change their mind A LOT) . In Scotland its 12 years of age

Would the siblings living apart be a good thing to do?

Others will pop into the forum and tell us different valuable opinions but I see it as:
It's possible (not sure how likely) but you need to agree this with the ex
If she doesn't agree you'll need mediation and then court
Ex is understandably worried about CMS reduction ... but that shouldn't be your objective
Kids opinions may be taken into account
You're going to need some strong reasons if you go to court why something is changing after working for 4 years

On the positive, sounds like this is something that might be going to happen naturally as he gets older. Legally as you're on the same footing as her, if he turns up at your house and falls asleep / refuses to move his ass.... nothing really anyone can do ;-)

Thank you for the advise.

as you said i also i feel i am being used as used as a baby sitter to have the kids when she is at work and when it suites her.

I understand your point about the ,so called, arrangement that we have been working with for the last few years. I have wanted the kids to be able to see us equaly for the last few years and she will not bend and now my son want to live with me it changes everything. I would be fine with the equal days but as this is what he wants and I see no reason, other than finacial, to reject his request.
also he would not see his sister for 1-2 nights differnt and i think it might make them closer and in each others faces less.

I am now scared that if it dose get to court I will come out seeing them less and that they HAVE to be returned to her when they dont want to be or atleast my son.  Sad 

Thanks again

(03-21-2017, 09:55 AM)MarkR Wrote:
(03-20-2017, 12:02 PM)si3624 Wrote: Hi all I am looking for some advice?
 
Some history 
 
My ex-wife left me 4 years ago, I have remarried since (met my now wife after we had separated) and we have been sharing the kids, Son 11 (12 in May) and daughter 13, since. She work a shift paten and over the last 4 years I have accommodated her shifts and the kids have stayed with me and my wife when she is at work or basically when I’m told I can have them. I have asked over the last 2 year can we have equal number of days but have been told, point blank NO. only 8 days in it but that is 8 more days I would get to see my kids!!!
 
my dilemma
Last year my son started asking if he can come and live with us so I suggested he speak to his mum as we would need to discuss it, he has since told both me and my wife that his mum told him he could choose when he was 12. so we have put it on the back burner until now.
 
The ex's new shift start in April, so last month after talking with my son to make sure he still wants to and that he is not trying to play us against each other, I sent her an email laying out a plan for our son that he was happy with, he sat with me and we wrote the email, and asked he to look over it and listen to what he has to say. Again I/We were told NO nothing will be changing and that she will be the primary carer and that the kids would be living with her until 18. since then my son has come to our house after school on a couple of occasions and messaged her to say he is staying at mine and that he didn’t want to call her because he knew she would shout at him.
I have spoken to my son and asked him what was said to him and what he took from the chat with his mum and all he took from it was NO you cant! and nothing since despite me sending 2 more emails in reply.
 
I have now requested the plan for him again and have now been told nothing will be changing and what reasons do I want them for 8 more days. Might I add that if they are with me more days her CSA payments would go down.
 
My son doesn’t want to go there at all but I have told him he needs to if only for a couple of day a week as she is his mum and that is the right thing to do.  on previous occasions I have had to prise his hands from the banisters and man handle him into and out of the car to get him there. I am now not willing to put both him and me through this trauma any more as it is not good for anyone.
 
What can I do and where do I stand?  (at present there is no court or legal obligations) I can't force my son to go if he is upset by it every time we tell him it is very deflating seeing him so down. 

hope this all makes sence  Sad
The starting point for this one will be knowing if the Child is located in England, Scotland, Ireland or Wales.

Also, how are your arrangements in place? (Any Court Order, Formal Document etc).

What are the typical arrangements right now, say over a month? Also, over school holidays?

There is a legal way forward with this one, and even if you can not get residency, you should be able to increase contact.

Contact is about the Non Residents availability, legally the preferred days and times of the Resident Parent does not come into it. While its up to her to arrangement and pay for any childcare, if its in use, you can ask a court for that time in addition to normal contact.

Hi Mark,

We are in England and have no court or legal obligation, neather any formal codumnet. the only thing I have is a copy of her shifts and on that are days she is willing for them to come to me of which some she is at work.

school hoidays I take all my anual leave in and spead it over half terms and summer and when she is not on anual leave we work around he shifts and they are with my wife if I am at work.

she dosnt use child care just family members when she is at work. this is one of my bugs that if I am off then why cant they be with me not an aunt or nan.

Contact days?  what is classed as avaliable? days im  ot at work or days that i can be there?

just dont want to loose the time I have with them as it wont be long before they think they are to old to spend time with us.

Thanks again
Reply
#5
(03-22-2017, 10:25 AM)si3624 Wrote:
(03-20-2017, 12:27 PM)LTCDAD Wrote: Few thoughts

You have a family based agreement so as you were married at birth of kid, or on Birth Cert, you both have equal co-parenting responsibility
You seem to be getting the time it suits your wife shifts but as non resident parent (if arrangements were formalized) you'd get the time YOU were available so make sure you're not being used as a baby sitter - that said I'm sure you are delighted to have them whenever ... like we all are :-)

To fomalise it, would mean mediation, then court if you couldn't agree... would be expensive and inflammatory (if you used solicitors... you can self represent but read on)

If formalized (via eventual court order) you'd get every other weekend plus a couple of nights in the week if practical... is that what you get now or do you have more... could be a reduction if your currently get 40-50%

Your ex has a point (bare with me)... what reasons do you have... if it went to court, you would need REAL reasons to change something that is working, however in England after 10 years of age the kids point of view would be considered (remember 10 year olds change their mind A LOT) . In Scotland its 12 years of age

Would the siblings living apart be a good thing to do?

Others will pop into the forum and tell us different valuable opinions but I see it as:
It's possible (not sure how likely) but you need to agree this with the ex
If she doesn't agree you'll need mediation and then court
Ex is understandably worried about CMS reduction ... but that shouldn't be your objective
Kids opinions may be taken into account
You're going to need some strong reasons if you go to court why something is changing after working for 4 years

On the positive, sounds like this is something that might be going to happen naturally as he gets older. Legally as you're on the same footing as her, if he turns up at your house and falls asleep / refuses to move his ass.... nothing really anyone can do ;-)

Thank you for the advise.

as you said i also i feel i am being used as used as a baby sitter to have the kids when she is at work and when it suites her.

I understand your point about the ,so called, arrangement that we have been working with for the last few years. I have wanted the kids to be able to see us equaly for the last few years and she will not bend and now my son want to live with me it changes everything. I would be fine with the equal days but as this is what he wants and I see no reason, other than finacial, to reject his request.
also he would not see his sister for 1-2 nights differnt and i think it might make them closer and in each others faces less.

I am now scared that if it dose get to court I will come out seeing them less and that they HAVE to be returned to her when they dont want to be or atleast my son.  Sad 

Thanks again

(03-21-2017, 09:55 AM)MarkR Wrote:
(03-20-2017, 12:02 PM)si3624 Wrote: Hi all I am looking for some advice?
 
Some history 
 
My ex-wife left me 4 years ago, I have remarried since (met my now wife after we had separated) and we have been sharing the kids, Son 11 (12 in May) and daughter 13, since. She work a shift paten and over the last 4 years I have accommodated her shifts and the kids have stayed with me and my wife when she is at work or basically when I’m told I can have them. I have asked over the last 2 year can we have equal number of days but have been told, point blank NO. only 8 days in it but that is 8 more days I would get to see my kids!!!
 
my dilemma
Last year my son started asking if he can come and live with us so I suggested he speak to his mum as we would need to discuss it, he has since told both me and my wife that his mum told him he could choose when he was 12. so we have put it on the back burner until now.
 
The ex's new shift start in April, so last month after talking with my son to make sure he still wants to and that he is not trying to play us against each other, I sent her an email laying out a plan for our son that he was happy with, he sat with me and we wrote the email, and asked he to look over it and listen to what he has to say. Again I/We were told NO nothing will be changing and that she will be the primary carer and that the kids would be living with her until 18. since then my son has come to our house after school on a couple of occasions and messaged her to say he is staying at mine and that he didn’t want to call her because he knew she would shout at him.
I have spoken to my son and asked him what was said to him and what he took from the chat with his mum and all he took from it was NO you cant! and nothing since despite me sending 2 more emails in reply.
 
I have now requested the plan for him again and have now been told nothing will be changing and what reasons do I want them for 8 more days. Might I add that if they are with me more days her CSA payments would go down.
 
My son doesn’t want to go there at all but I have told him he needs to if only for a couple of day a week as she is his mum and that is the right thing to do.  on previous occasions I have had to prise his hands from the banisters and man handle him into and out of the car to get him there. I am now not willing to put both him and me through this trauma any more as it is not good for anyone.
 
What can I do and where do I stand?  (at present there is no court or legal obligations) I can't force my son to go if he is upset by it every time we tell him it is very deflating seeing him so down. 

hope this all makes sence  Sad
The starting point for this one will be knowing if the Child is located in England, Scotland, Ireland or Wales.

Also, how are your arrangements in place? (Any Court Order, Formal Document etc).

What are the typical arrangements right now, say over a month? Also, over school holidays?

There is a legal way forward with this one, and even if you can not get residency, you should be able to increase contact.

Contact is about the Non Residents availability, legally the preferred days and times of the Resident Parent does not come into it. While its up to her to arrangement and pay for any childcare, if its in use, you can ask a court for that time in addition to normal contact.

Hi Mark,

We are in England and have no court or legal obligation, neather any formal codumnet. the only thing I have is a copy of her shifts and on that are days she is willing for them to come to me of which some she is at work.

school hoidays I take all my anual leave in and spead it over half terms and summer and when she is not on anual leave we work around he shifts and they are with my wife if I am at work.

she dosnt use child care just family members when she is at work. this is one of my bugs that if I am off then why cant they be with me not an aunt or nan.

Contact days?  what is classed as avaliable? days im  ot at work or days that i can be there?

just dont want to loose the time I have with them as it wont be long before they think they are to old to spend time with us.

Thanks again

So if this went to Court, you can have "wishes and desires" report done, as the child is old enough. The court will consider that, and the view of either Social Services or Cafcass (whoever do it).

You need to get Formal Arrangements in place via Mediation. Splitting up the children is not an issue, as long as you can sort contact arrangements, so they spend time with either other then.

Its up to the Resident Parent to arrange and pay for any Childcare, except when the child is having contact.

How courts view it, is that Quality Time is in school term weekends, and school holidays. A typical contact order is Friday till Sunday every 2 weeks, and up to half school holidays. This in effect is halving the quality time, as unless there is any Child Welfare or Protection Issues, the child has a right to Quality Time with BOTH parents. This is the very least a court would award. Mid week visits or stay overs can be added in, to make it more like shared care. Often this is 0 or 1 on your week, 1 or 2 on the other.

However, its up to your availability (NOT HER WORK ROTA) as to what you ask for. If your work work rota makes this not workable, then you suggest a rota to court, over the same number of weeks as your shift system.

There is nothing wrong with you offering to help out with childcare when it suits her, but this should be in addition to your time.

With regard to the school holidays, its 6.5 weeks each, and if she makes an issue out of it, then it must be when your about, so in that situation I would go with 1 week Easter and Christmas and 2 weeks (plus a weekend) in the Summer).
Posts made by me are my opinion and any factual information should be checked out. If you do not have a Solicitor, often your local CAB can get you some initial advice.
Reply


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