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Restricted holidays with my daughter
#1
Dear All,

I have an apartment in Spain, so holidays are very easy and turn key to do. For years this has never been a problem and my daughter spent nearly all holiday time with me. I had a restriction that 2 weeks is the maximum combined time and in no way what so ever was i allowed to affect school term time in any way.

Ok so now all doesn't seem too bad, all bearable until two months ago..

As always any school holidays I would confirm the dates at the beginning of the year , then re confirm two months before. On this last confirmation regarding the annual two week holiday during the 6 week summer holidays i was met with a new plan.

1 - i cant have my daughter for anything longer than a 7 day period ( including travel time)

When I asked why? i got the following excuse..." that 2 weeks is too long a gap between her seeing her and also with all the terrorism threats she isn't comfortable with me taking her to Spain for longer than a week!!" RIDICULOUS!! do terrorist ONLY target 14 day holiday makers?

Anyway... it got heated and i ended to talks until she had calmed down... I then sent a text message to enquire about her holiday plans as we didnt get that far in the last conversation.. Now bearing in mind my previous " I had a restriction that 2 weeks is the maximum combined time and in no way what so ever was i allowed to affect school term time in any way." you can imagine the hypocrisy when i got the following information back that not only was she taking her to Spain, but taking her out of school for a week!

Now my daughter is so upset at why she cant come on our pre booked 2 week holiday. She her self has intelligently at only 8 years old suggested " Mummy why dont i do 3 weeks with daddy and 3 weeks with you!"

My question is can the mother stop us taking her away ?
Do i need to get courts involved ?

or are my daughters and I's wishes enough for me to say tough, its happening and stop being silly!
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#2
She can indeed stop you from taking her abroad, however, you can stop her too.
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#3
Hi,

You are in a tricky situation as you want things to continue as amicable as possible.

However, you would need to make it clear to your ex partner that the holiday is already booked and that you will take your child on holiday as on previous years. Mum had the chance to object at the beginning of the year but choose not to do so. Nothing has changed in terms of travel restrictions to Spain and now even her going to Spain. Makes no sense.

2 scenarios are possible:

1. You take the matter to court and file for an child arrangement order to be made.

Problem: this is going to be a lengthy process and might bring you more problems in the end. It would be a shame if things worked for years and now you both need court.

2. She can take the matter to court and apply for a prohibited steps order prior you travelling. You do nothing.

If you opt for 2. you potentially risk child abduction charges as you need consent from everyone with PR to remove a child from the U.K.

However, in the wider context you could argue that mum had never not allowed to remove the child from the U.K. but the argument was about the length of stay. She was made aware at the beginning of the year and she now has a chance to file a prohibited steps order.

It would be good if you would find a way to tell her nicely either you take the matter to court now or I take this as your consent for me to travel. You would need to wrap this a bit so that this doesn't feel like pistol on chest.

I can't really say how a judge would see this of course but to me it's questionable if your ex would press such charges and if a court would make such findings especially if for years everything was amicably.

But only you know and only you can make this decisions.

If you want to play this by the book you would need to get this to court. Opt. 1

Alternatively consult a lawyer.

Good luck.

F.
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#4
(07-17-2017, 01:45 PM)harwood0973 Wrote: Dear All,

I have an apartment in Spain, so holidays are very easy and turn key to do. For years this has never been a problem and my daughter spent nearly all holiday time with me. I had a restriction that 2 weeks is the maximum combined time and in no way what so ever was i allowed to affect school term time in any way.

Ok so now all doesn't seem too bad, all bearable until two months ago..

As always any school holidays I would confirm the dates at the beginning of the year , then re confirm two months before. On this last confirmation regarding the annual two week holiday during the 6 week summer holidays i was met with a new plan.

1 - i cant have my daughter for anything longer than a 7 day period ( including travel time)

When I asked why? i got the following excuse..." that 2 weeks is too long a gap between her seeing her and also with all the terrorism threats she isn't comfortable with me taking her to Spain for longer than a week!!" RIDICULOUS!! do terrorist ONLY target 14 day holiday makers?

Anyway... it got heated and i ended to talks until she had calmed down... I then sent a text message to enquire about her holiday plans as we didnt get that far in the last conversation.. Now bearing in mind my previous " I had a restriction that 2 weeks is the maximum combined time and in no way what so ever was i allowed to affect school term time in any way." you can imagine the hypocrisy when i got the following information back that not only was she taking her to Spain, but taking her out of school for a week!

Now my daughter is so upset at why she cant come on our pre booked 2 week holiday. She her self has intelligently at only 8 years old suggested " Mummy why dont i do 3 weeks with daddy and 3 weeks with you!"

My question is can the mother stop us taking her away ?
Do i need to get courts involved ?

or are my daughters and I's wishes enough for me to say tough, its happening and stop being silly!

If this aspect has already been decided on a Court Order, then you might want to inform you ex, that you will file a C79, where she could get a fine or made to do unpaid work.  On top of that, you can ask the court to order her to pay your out of pocket costs, due to her breach of the court order.

It is normal for 2 week blocks in the summer, and in my own case it was on the Contact Order I got before Residance changed. The only thing what would change this, is EXPERT opinion, for example a Medical Issue.

How arrangements would affect a child in law is not the decision of the parents. It would be for Social Services or Cafcass to give the court an opinion.
Posts made by me are my opinion and any factual information should be checked out. If you do not have a Solicitor, often your local CAB can get you some initial advice.
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#5
My question is who decided this restriction? -
"I had a restriction that 2 weeks is the maximum combined time and in no way what so ever was i allowed to affect school term time in any way."

And who decided this new plan
"I cant have my daughter for anything longer than a 7 day period ( including travel time)"

If it was the ex and not the courts then you can go to court to get a court order. Children deserve quality time with both parents and holidays are as such

She needs to match the flexibility you show her... otherwise it becomes a war and only the children suffer
"Being a good father, for its own sake, does not require your ex to see it or agree"
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#6
(07-17-2017, 06:07 PM)Jaz184 Wrote: She can indeed stop you from taking her abroad, however, you can stop her too.

Thanks for this but i never want it to go that far... She isnt "stopping" she is just adding a restriction based only on her own wishes that SHE does not and WILL NOT have her daughter away from her for more than 7 days. Not negotiable apparently. Its never been an issue for the last 5 years + :-(

(07-18-2017, 09:01 AM)LTCDAD Wrote: My question is who decided this restriction? -
"I had a restriction that 2 weeks is the maximum combined time and in no way what so ever was i allowed to affect school term time in any way."

And who decided this new plan
"I cant have my daughter for anything longer than a 7 day period ( including travel time)"

If it was the ex and not the courts then you can go to court to get a court order. Children deserve quality time with both parents and holidays are as such

She needs to match the flexibility you show her... otherwise it becomes a war and only the children suffer

Hi,

The restriction is less than 2 months old and completely decided by the mother. I have asked for the reasons and only get that "anything over 7 days is too long for me to be away from my daughter!" Its never been an issue before...

We believe that there are some insecurities that my daughter is showing signs that our environment is more favorable. Her and my partners son are like true 6 & 8 yrs old siblings and do everything together. We can only think this has sparked a change. But all it seems to be doing is making my daughter think her mums being mean to her, and all of us.. she is showing signs of loosing respect for her mother by pulling faces and saying " dont worry shes just being crazy again!"

Your right, in long summer holidays a longer stint is more than acceptable, and considering I live 70 miles from my daughter,  alternate weeks is and cant be in the best interests of the child with all that traveling. NOt only that but now I'm being told that I must do the 70 mile trip mid week over the holidays for her 1 hr Wednesday swimming lesson too!

My weekends with out my daughter I travel down mid week to take her out for a few hours. To be honest i'd do that everyday if i was allowed no matter how many miles it is!

It does become a war and your right too... only the kids suffer! i think the court order route is the only way i can get this all in black and white..

Does she have to abide by it? if she doesnt what then? how do i start this off?

thanks
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#7
(07-25-2017, 11:14 AM)harwood0973 Wrote:
(07-17-2017, 06:07 PM)Jaz184 Wrote: She can indeed stop you from taking her abroad, however, you can stop her too.

Thanks for this but i never want it to go that far... She isnt "stopping" she is just adding a restriction based only on her own wishes that SHE does not and WILL NOT have her daughter away from her for more than 7 days. Not negotiable apparently. Its never been an issue for the last 5 years + :-(

(07-18-2017, 09:01 AM)LTCDAD Wrote: My question is who decided this restriction? -
"I had a restriction that 2 weeks is the maximum combined time and in no way what so ever was i allowed to affect school term time in any way."

And who decided this new plan
"I cant have my daughter for anything longer than a 7 day period ( including travel time)"

If it was the ex and not the courts then you can go to court to get a court order. Children deserve quality time with both parents and holidays are as such

She needs to match the flexibility you show her... otherwise it becomes a war and only the children suffer

Hi,

The restriction is less than 2 months old and completely decided by the mother. I have asked for the reasons and only get that "anything over 7 days is too long for me to be away from my daughter!" Its never been an issue before...

We believe that there are some insecurities that my daughter is showing signs that our environment is more favorable. Her and my partners son are like true 6 & 8 yrs old siblings and do everything together. We can only think this has sparked a change. But all it seems to be doing is making my daughter think her mums being mean to her, and all of us.. she is showing signs of loosing respect for her mother by pulling faces and saying " dont worry shes just being crazy again!"

Your right, in long summer holidays a longer stint is more than acceptable, and considering I live 70 miles from my daughter,  alternate weeks is and cant be in the best interests of the child with all that traveling. NOt only that but now I'm being told that I must do the 70 mile trip mid week over the holidays for her 1 hr Wednesday swimming lesson too!

My weekends with out my daughter I travel down mid week to take her out for a few hours. To be honest i'd do that everyday if i was allowed no matter how many miles it is!

It does become a war and your right too... only the kids suffer! i think the court order route is the only way i can get this all in black and white..

Does she have to abide by it? if she doesnt what then? how do i start this off?

thanks

In law up to 2 weeks without seeing EITHER parent is acceptable.

As a Non Resident parent, my Order said half school holidays, to include a 2 week block in the summer holidays agreed 3 months in advance, so i could book holidays. My daughter was 4 when that order was made.
Posts made by me are my opinion and any factual information should be checked out. If you do not have a Solicitor, often your local CAB can get you some initial advice.
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