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how to approach this issue please advise
#1
hi

just need some advise as to how to tackle this
my son is 3 and living with his mother.


1) i have a child arrangements order in place which currently gives me friday 4.30 -monday 8.30 every weekend, has been like this for over a year now.
2) special occasions half day each
3) holidays to be agreed in writing between parents

the schedule specifies the following instruction (change in contact)

As from 8th september 2017 contact will be friday 4.30 to monday 8.30 alternate weekends
The parties to agree a mid week weekly contact from after nursery until a time agreed
This is technically a reduction in contact

The only reason this was issued was because she wanted leisure time with him and the judge said when he starts nursery full time this would be the arrangement but until then contact would be every weekend.
I have spoken to nursery and they informed me he will still be at nursery 15 hours a week as she is on benefits and only qualifies for 15 hours free.

so really there is no need to change the current arrangement till september 2018

the problem is this
a) clashes with my shift patterns as it means that i will not be able to see my son 1 week in 4 mid week as i will be on afternoons and
b) it will also mean that 1 week in 4 i will not be able to drop him to nursery monday morning due to working a morning shift

also i travel 14 miles to see him , so if i get to see him say after nursery to say 7pm which i proposed mid week almost half of that time will be spent travelling there and back (although i will apply for travel expenses variation from CMS)

I have wrote to ex with a proposal which just means swapping 1 night from the sunday to the following friday and drop him sat morning so she still gets her weekend with him and set the midweek weekly contact days aswell
i have proposed the days of weekly contact so its consistent with my shifts  and can work in principal.
(i would address the issue of the 1 mid week contact clash by going part time at work if necessary (i have spoken to me supervisor)

she has not responded to my letter or texts asking what her decision is and when i told her if needed il go to court was replied with " go to court ...its up to me if you can see your son not the court"

i doubt mediation will work...but will attempt it as its a requirement now
if she doesnt agree to any midweek contact at all...then is she in breach of court order?

how do i move forward?

i spoke to relate mediaiton who said its £75 per person, i dont mind paying that (she would have to pay her own which the benefit scrounger is no way going to do),

am i right in hearing that its free if one person qualifies for legal aid?
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#2
(07-24-2017, 11:23 AM)bimma Wrote: hi

just need some advise as to how to tackle this
my son is 3 and living with his mother.


1) i have a child arrangements order in place which currently gives me friday 4.30 -monday 8.30 every weekend
2) special occasions half day each

the schedule specifies the following instruction (change in contact)

As from 8th september 2017 cotnact will be friday 4.30 to monday 8.30 alternate weekends
The parties to agree a mid week weekly contact from after nursery until a time agreed
This is technically a reduction in contact

The only reason this was issued was because she wanted leisure time with him and the judge said when he starts nursery full time this would be arrangement. I have spoken to nursery and they informed me he will still be at nursery 15 hours a week as she is on benefits and only qualifies for 15 hours free.

so really there is no need to change the current arrangement till september 2018

the problem is this
a) clashes with my shift patterns as it means that i will not be able to see my son 1 week in 4 mid week as i will be on afternoons and
b) it will also mean that 1 week in 4 i will not be able to drop him to nursery monday morning due to working a morning shift

also i travel 14 miles to see him , so if i get to see him say after nursery to say 7pm which i proposed mid week alomost half of that time will be spent travelling there and back (although i will apply for travel expenses variation from CMS)

I have wrote to ex with a proposal which just means swapping 1 night from the sunday to the following friday and drop him sat morning so she still gets her weekend with him and set the midweek weekly contact days aswell
i have proposed the days of weekly contact so its consistent with my shifts  and can work in principal.
(i would address the issue of the 1 mid week contact clash by going part time at work if necessary (i have spoken to me supervisor)

she has not responded to my letter or texts asking what her decision is and when i told her if needed il go to court was replied with " go to court ...its up to me if you can see your son not the court"

i doubt mediation will work...but will attempt it
if she doesnt agree to any midweek contact at all...then is she in breach of court order?

how do i move forward?

i spoke to relate mediaiton who said its £75 per person, i dont mind paying that (she would have to pay her own which the benefit scrounger is no way going to do),

am i right in hearing that its free if one person qualifies for legal aid?

This can not be resolved by Mediation. Once a Court Order Exists, only a Court can change it.

You need to have "Significant" reason for a case to be looked at again, and you have this as your avaliablity has changed, not known at the time the order was made.

Contact time is based on the avaliablity of the Non Resident Parent.

On a C100, you need to apply to vary your existing Order.
Posts made by me are my opinion and any factual information should be checked out. If you do not have a Solicitor, often your local CAB can get you some initial advice.
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#3
thanks

i understand i need to apply to vary the order to go court

Even though the court order changes in september to alternate weekends and its instructed that a midweek contact is to take place after nursery to an agreed time.
The matter to resolve if this is to work is that we need to agree a midweek day for contact and a drop off time hence i thought id be adult about it and write to her to see if there can be an agreement
She does not want to co-operate hence now will probably need to go court to get it set in writing the day and time of midweek contact (petty as it seems but no option really.) I have already been back to court once for enforcement due to breaches so i wander how the judge will take it to see us back in court again for a third time in  just over a year



it is worth noting that Nothing of my circumstances has changed since the final hearing when the original court order was made,
my shift patterns are the same ( copy of these were submitted with my position statement)
only thing changing is the instruction on the schedule is going from every weekend to every other weekend with mid week as from sept 2017.

the original instruction was fine every week. works well. (as long as she turns up)
the issue is with this new instruction which clashes with my shifts
she stated she wanted alternate weekends in her postiion statement due to wanting leisure time with child hence the judge stated that when child starts full time nursery i.e sept 2017 it goes to alternate weekends

however my child was 2 at the time and only part time nursery so judge ordered every weekend initially for a year to re establish good strong contact with child (4 months of no contact).
But even though he is 3 now, she is a single parent on benefits and the nursery told me she only gets 15 hours a week free . so there is no change in circumstances for child either.

The judge making the decision on the final hearing applied the every weekend rule initially for the first year as my son wasnt at nursery nursery till sept 2016 which would be part time so it was to re establish good contact routine and then applied the generic every other weekend/midweek contact rule to the case as a decision.
but he didnt think to see that it would clash with my shifts a year later. and at the time i was too concerned about present rather then realise it would cause an issue a year later.
the reason it clashes is that i work 2 weeks of mornings and 2 weeks of afternoons. where as the contact rotor is weekly rotating. hence it means that when i am on afternoons (twice in 4 weeks) i will not be able to see my son during the week. and when i am on mornings i will not be able to drop him to nursery monday morning as instructed on court order. i tried to resolve this by suggesting swapping 1 night from the sunday to the following friday and drop off sat morning (so she still gets her weekend) and have my other midweek contact on a friday which i can accomodate.

it is still a requirement of court to attempt MIAM isnt it...theres only certain circumstances that are exempt....would this be one?

what would be likelyhood of continuing the existing arrangement as its proven to work and doesnt clash with my work also child is now is a routine of seeing father every weekend...the change is a a disruption and could be confusing for him.?

Also i need it to be sorted before september
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#4
(07-25-2017, 08:43 AM)bimma Wrote: thanks

i understand i need to apply to vary the order

however, nothingof my circumstances has changed since the final hearing when the original court order was made,
my shift patterns are the same ( copy of these were submitted with my position statement)
only thing changing is the instruction on the schedule is going from every weekend to every other weekend with mid week as from sept 2017. the original instruction was fine. works well. the issue is with this new instruction which clashes with my shifts
she stated she wanted alternate weekends due to wanting leisure time with child hence the judge stated that when child starts full time nursery i.e sept 2017 it goes to alternate weekends

however my child was 2 at the time and only part time nursery so judge ordered every weekend initially for a year to re establish good strong contact with child (4 months of no contact).
But even though he is 3 now, she is a single parent on benefits and the nursery told me she only gets 15 hours a week free . so there is no change in circumstances for child either.

The judge making the decision on the final hearing applied the every weekend rule initially for the first year as my son wasnt at part time nursery till sept 2016 so it was to re establish good contact routine and then the generic every other weekend/midweek rule to the case as decision. but he didnt think to see that it would clash with my shifts a year later. and at the time i was too concerned about present rather then realise it would cause an issue a year later.

it is still a requirement of court to attempt MIAM isnt it...theres only certain circumstances that are exempt....would this be one?

what would be likelyhood of continuing the existing arrangement as its proven to work and doesnt class with my work also child is now is a routine of seeing father every weekend...the change is a a disruption and could be confusing for him.

You have a valid reason for variation. While most orders are over 2 weeks, in your case you need a rolling timeable to match your shift patten. Its your avaliablity what decides contact days and time, and shes not putting forward any valid reason to change it.

What you need to do is suggest a timtable to your ex to match your work commitments (so over the same number of weeks as shift patten), ensuring that you are only asking for half the weekends. If there is going to be long gaps, then put in some afterschool visits or stay overs.
Posts made by me are my opinion and any factual information should be checked out. If you do not have a Solicitor, often your local CAB can get you some initial advice.
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#5
just to clarify
she isnt the one making the change. At the final hearing the order was every weekend from may 2016- sept 2017
so coming up from sept 2017 court order stipulates that contact will now be alternate weekends and 1 mid week after nursery (day and time to be agreed).
the issue is this change coming as specified by the judge clashes with my work
it was originally issued because the assumption that child will be at full time nursery so mother wanted alternate weekends leisure time .
But child is still 15 hours a week this coming sept aswell as she only qualifies for that under free scheme

when you say half the weekends you mean alternate weekends?
I have sent her a letter
which specifies the following arrangement
week 1) 1 midweek  contact monday pick up from nursery. drop off 7pm
my weekend friday sat sun drop to nusery monday morning ( i have stated swap this night for the following week

week 2.  have my midweek day as friday. use the night from previous sunday and drop child sat morning
weekend with mother

week 3 mid week contact monday after nusery drop 7pm
my weekend drop monday morning to nursery


week 4, have midweek contact friday, pickup from  nursery drop off 7pm friday evening
weekend with mother.

then back to week 1.

the above patterns offers a routing and consistency whilst fitting in with my work. bar the 1 clash.

This can work with my shifts and gives mother alternate weekends, the only problem i will face with this is 1 week in 4 i wont be able to see him the monday for midweek due to working lates. f confirmed i will be working with my employer to resolve this by either going part time or swapping shifts that day

She has not responded to this proposal or offered alternative. and is point blank not co-operating

I have already been back for enforcement in january 2017 where she received a verbal warning and agreed to "fully and wholly comply"

Surely the courts need to see that she is making things diffcult for no valid reason

I have my mediation assement booked next week and was told if she doesnt respond to mediators then they will sign my form off for court.
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#6
(07-25-2017, 11:50 AM)bimma Wrote: just to clarify
she isnt the one making the change. At the final hearing the order was every weekend from may 2016- sept 2017
so coming up from sept 2017 court order stipulates that contact will now be alternate weekends and 1 mid week after nursery (day and time to be agreed).
the issue is this change coming as specified by the judge clashes with my work
it was originally issued because the assumption that child will be at full time nursery so mother wanted alternate weekends leisure time .
But child is still 15 hours a week this coming sept aswell as she only qualifies for that under free scheme

when you say half the weekends you mean alternate weekends?
I have sent her a letter
which specifies the following arrangement
week 1) 1 midweek  contact monday pick up from nursery. drop off 7pm
my weekend friday sat sun drop to nusery monday morning ( i have stated swap this night for the following week

week 2.  have my midweek day as friday. use the night from previous sunday and drop child sat morning
weekend with mother

week 3 mid week contact monday after nusery drop 7pm
my weekend drop monday morning to nursery


week 4, have midweek contact friday, pickup from  nursery drop off 7pm friday evening
weekend with mother.

then back to week 1.

the above patterns offers a routing and consistency whilst fitting in with my work. bar the 1 clash.

This can work with my shifts and gives mother alternate weekends, the only problem i will face with this is 1 week in 4 i wont be able to see him the monday for midweek due to working lates. f confirmed i will be working with my employer to resolve this by either going part time or swapping shifts that day

She has not responded to this proposal or offered alternative. and is point blank not co-operating

I have already been back for enforcement in january 2017 where she received a verbal warning and agreed to "fully and wholly comply"

Surely the courts need to see that she is making things diffcult for no valid reason

I have my mediation assement booked next week and was told if she doesnt respond to mediators then they will sign my form off for court.

If she objects to this you will lose at Court.

Quality Time is Friday till Sunday. Your ex is entitled to half of this.

Mid week contact needs to be Monday to Thursday.

In terms of school holidays, you will get half if you ask, but as you work, you might want a week at Easter and Christmas, and 2 weeks in the Summer (plus another weekend to fit in with her holiday plans).
Posts made by me are my opinion and any factual information should be checked out. If you do not have a Solicitor, often your local CAB can get you some initial advice.
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#7
my work holidays coincide with the school holidays

i the current court order holidays are not specified other than they need to be agreed in writing.
this was because i had every weekend

but now that its going to alternate i put in my proposal that holidays should be split equally i,e half week with each parent
so mon morn to thurday afternoon with one parent and thursday afternoon to monday morning with other depending on whose weekend it is that week. or a week each (but the first reduced the gap in contact)

I hear you on the mon-thursday thing and if she was to agree monday as one day of contact. and then thursday as the other then i could make it work . my manager said i need to know the days and then speak to them
but because she has been totally unresponsive i cant do anything yet.


as there is no change to circumstances. i.e nursery or my work....what is the likelyhood that the court will order the existing every weekend to continue to avoid disruption to routine?
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#8
(07-25-2017, 12:29 PM)bimma Wrote: my work holidays coincide with the school holidays

i the current court order holidays are not specified other than they need to be agreed in writing.
this was because i had every weekend

but now that its going to alternate i put in my proposal that holidays should be split equally i,e half week with each parent
so mon morn to thurday afternoon with one parent and thursday afternoon to monday morning with other depending on whose weekend it is that week. or a week each (but the first reduced the gap in contact)

I hear you on the mon-thursday thing and if she was to agree monday as one day of contact. and then thursday as the other then i could make it work . my manager said i need to know the days and then speak to them
but because she has been totally unresponsive i cant do anything yet.


as there is no change to circumstances. i.e nursery or my work....what is the likelyhood that the court will order the existing every weekend to continue to avoid disruption to routine?

With the school holidays, its normal for mid week contact to stop. What I advise is where you want half

1 week holidays. Contact to start or end on the Wednesday, over normal weekend.

Easter, 1x8 day block, or 2x 4 day blocks (over normal weekend if its not easter weekend). Either share Easter Sunday, or turns each.

Summer, its best if both parents have a 2 week block, so you can book holidays. Its also best if dates sorted 3 months in advance, in terms of getting best prices. Ex partners might try to say 2 weeks is to long, but in law its not, once the child is over 2. You then also need either 1x8 day, or 2 x 4 day blocks, but you do need to bear in mind your ex also needs a 2 week window, so this would be best sorted once she confirms her holiday dates.

Christmas/New Year. Again its about 8 days each. What me and my ex done was changed over lunchtime Christmas Day, and lunchtime New Years Day.
Posts made by me are my opinion and any factual information should be checked out. If you do not have a Solicitor, often your local CAB can get you some initial advice.
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#9
there was a prohibited steps order in place during the proceedings and this was lifted at the final hearing upon agreement that holidays (abroad) are to be agreed in writing between parties and minimum 21 days notice given with dates/times/flight details /location. There is a paragraph headed holidays that states the above.

no mention of school term time holidays, at the time judge said we would need to arrange something between ourselves i.e swap/exchange as i was having every weekend at the time. but wasnt written in order

This above arrangement for holidays abroad would need to remain place
and an element added regarding school term holidays . i think blocks of 4 days each wed afternoon-sund or a week each would be better. as two weeks is too much time for the child not to see either parent.

Special occasions xmas birthday/other religious festivals half day each. already in order.
school holidays werent specified so need to be now

my suggested proposal has been refused by her so waiting for alternative
if the matter goes to court then il suggest the midweek day to be wednesday pick up from nursery or school as specified in order and drop off 7.00pm . ( i travel 14 miles (40 mins) to pickup drop off so 7pm is reasonable)
And request half school holidays
and holidays abroad to remain as already stipulated in order above i.e to be agreed in writing with 21 days notice.

would this be more likely to be successfull outcome?

I would then arrange my work to accomodate either going full time morning, or even going part time and taking the midweek day of contact off . i do whatever to see my son. even if i have to quit the job.
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