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Stuck on what to ask for at court
#1
Hi again.  Recently posted about a number of issues leading to me wanting to apply to get court order defined.  Things have accelerated and the issue now is not just witheld contact, but fairly heavy alienation and son is clearly struggling, although tells me what is being said to him.  I think he's scared of anger if he doesn't back up what his Mother tells him to say (which is that he doesn't want to come here any more).  He's already been made to say negative things about me to a family worker after allegations of neglect were made a few months ago.  Family worker decided it wasn't his words and dismissed it.  Since then lots of cancelled contact, nasty emails and child's Mother now saying order only says reasonable contact so she's reducing contact and it's what child wants (which I know isn't true).

Now stuck on how to apply and what to say.  Part of me just wants to apply to get the contact sorted.  Another part of me wants to go for an ex parte application citing the alienation as psychological abuse and giving whatever evidence I've got and asking for residence.  I have seen my son totally changed after 3 weeks separation and like a different child.

Can't cite the alienation openly in a C100 or C1A as I'm worried she will get very volatile and work harder on son to alienate him.  She's a bully.

Have parented him since birth - we were two single parents.  He's now 9 and a half.

Any advice?
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#2
(08-27-2017, 08:16 PM)Charlie7000 Wrote: Hi again.  Recently posted about a number of issues leading to me wanting to apply to get court order defined.  Things have accelerated and the issue now is not just witheld contact, but fairly heavy alienation and son is clearly struggling, although tells me what is being said to him.  I think he's scared of anger if he doesn't back up what his Mother tells him to say (which is that he doesn't want to come here any more).  He's already been made to say negative things about me to a family worker after allegations of neglect were made a few months ago.  Family worker decided it wasn't his words and dismissed it.  Since then lots of cancelled contact, nasty emails and child's Mother now saying order only says reasonable contact so she's reducing contact and it's what child wants (which I know isn't true).

Now stuck on how to apply and what to say.  Part of me just wants to apply to get the contact sorted.  Another part of me wants to go for an ex parte application citing the alienation as psychological abuse and giving whatever evidence I've got and asking for residence.  I have seen my son totally changed after 3 weeks separation and like a different child.

Can't cite the alienation openly in a C100 or C1A as I'm worried she will get very volatile and work harder on son to alienate him.  She's a bully.

Have parented him since birth - we were two single parents.  He's now 9 and a half.

Any advice?

Even if you obtained an Ex Party Order, it would be set down for a return to Court, as the other side has a legal right to challange the Order being made.

You can only get an Urgent Ex Party Application, if the Child is in danger and so you need a hearing that day.

In my view, you should be asking the Court Office for a Hearing to seek permission to make an Urgent Application.

No detail what would identify anyone in your case, including the name of the Family Worker, but who do they work for (Social Services, NSPCC etc).
Posts made by me are my opinion and any factual information should be checked out. If you do not have a Solicitor, often your local CAB can get you some initial advice.
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#3
(08-27-2017, 08:54 PM)MarkR Wrote:
(08-27-2017, 08:16 PM)Charlie7000 Wrote: Hi again.  Recently posted about a number of issues leading to me wanting to apply to get court order defined.  Things have accelerated and the issue now is not just witheld contact, but fairly heavy alienation and son is clearly struggling, although tells me what is being said to him.  I think he's scared of anger if he doesn't back up what his Mother tells him to say (which is that he doesn't want to come here any more).  He's already been made to say negative things about me to a family worker after allegations of neglect were made a few months ago.  Family worker decided it wasn't his words and dismissed it.  Since then lots of cancelled contact, nasty emails and child's Mother now saying order only says reasonable contact so she's reducing contact and it's what child wants (which I know isn't true).

Now stuck on how to apply and what to say.  Part of me just wants to apply to get the contact sorted.  Another part of me wants to go for an ex parte application citing the alienation as psychological abuse and giving whatever evidence I've got and asking for residence.  I have seen my son totally changed after 3 weeks separation and like a different child.

Can't cite the alienation openly in a C100 or C1A as I'm worried she will get very volatile and work harder on son to alienate him.  She's a bully.

Have parented him since birth - we were two single parents.  He's now 9 and a half.

Any advice?

Even if you obtained an Ex Party Order, it would be set down for a return to Court, as the other side has a legal right to challange the Order being made.

You can only get an Urgent Ex Party Application, if the Child is in danger and so you need a hearing that day.

In my view, you should be asking the Court Office for a Hearing to seek permission to make an Urgent Application.

No detail what would identify anyone in your case, including the name of the Family Worker, but who do they work for (Social Services, NSPCC etc).
Thanks very much.  Not sure what you mean, sorry.  So ex parte application is only for urgent application?  And if had one and got an order it would be returned to court.  But if child living with me meanwhile it would protect him even if other side had a right to challenge it maybe?  Don't understand the bit about asking court office for a hearing to seek permission to make an urgent application.  Is that different from applying for an ex part hearing?  Family worker is from a "lower level" than social services, not full social services.
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#4
(08-27-2017, 10:51 PM)Charlie7000 Wrote:
(08-27-2017, 08:54 PM)MarkR Wrote:
(08-27-2017, 08:16 PM)Charlie7000 Wrote: Hi again.  Recently posted about a number of issues leading to me wanting to apply to get court order defined.  Things have accelerated and the issue now is not just witheld contact, but fairly heavy alienation and son is clearly struggling, although tells me what is being said to him.  I think he's scared of anger if he doesn't back up what his Mother tells him to say (which is that he doesn't want to come here any more).  He's already been made to say negative things about me to a family worker after allegations of neglect were made a few months ago.  Family worker decided it wasn't his words and dismissed it.  Since then lots of cancelled contact, nasty emails and child's Mother now saying order only says reasonable contact so she's reducing contact and it's what child wants (which I know isn't true).

Now stuck on how to apply and what to say.  Part of me just wants to apply to get the contact sorted.  Another part of me wants to go for an ex parte application citing the alienation as psychological abuse and giving whatever evidence I've got and asking for residence.  I have seen my son totally changed after 3 weeks separation and like a different child.

Can't cite the alienation openly in a C100 or C1A as I'm worried she will get very volatile and work harder on son to alienate him.  She's a bully.

Have parented him since birth - we were two single parents.  He's now 9 and a half.

Any advice?

Even if you obtained an Ex Party Order, it would be set down for a return to Court, as the other side has a legal right to challange the Order being made.

You can only get an Urgent Ex Party Application, if the Child is in danger and so you need a hearing that day.

In my view, you should be asking the Court Office for a Hearing to seek permission to make an Urgent Application.

No detail what would identify anyone in your case, including the name of the Family Worker, but who do they work for (Social Services, NSPCC etc).
Thanks very much.  Not sure what you mean, sorry.  So ex parte application is only for urgent application?  And if had one and got an order it would be returned to court.  But if child living with me meanwhile it would protect him even if other side had a right to challenge it maybe?  Don't understand the bit about asking court office for a hearing to seek permission to make an urgent application.  Is that different from applying for an ex part hearing?  Family worker is from a "lower level" than social services, not full social services.

It is only in exceptional circamstances where a Court will allow someone to make an ex party application, and when its done the case has to return to Court, as the other side in law need to be given the chance to comment on things, and might want to object to what your asking for.

To give you an idea, twice in my own case I have gone into Court Ex Party.

1, for the 2nd time, my ex would not answer me calls, and the first time she had broke a working agreement with SS (who got her to agree to contact again). I had to explain the situation to a Judge, but as I was only asking for contact, I had to Serve her with Documents to attend Court 2 days later.

2, Due to a situaiton I can not talk about as we are still in proceedings, a meeting had to place in December last year, where it was agreed I would have the children longer to help me ex short term. Unfortunatly her mother broke a PSO by attempting to take my son to see of of their relatives (what they was not aware at the time I know about, and had reported to a SS Manager, who agreed we should delay putting it in Court for a few weeks, as the children would be with me except for short visits to their mum only, for a couple of hours at a time. On a day in March I was due to collect the children from school, and her mum wanted to change the arrangements, and have them till 8pm (note she is a 30 min drive away, and the youngest child was 6, and it was a night before school). She informed me the deal with SS was off, and I could only see my children when the Court said.

At 1015 the next morning, an ex party order was made, saying the children live with me until return to court a few days later, where I also had to obtain a letter from SS confirming it was their short term wish for the children to be with me. 1 hour before the hearing, SS gave me a letter saying in fact on reviewing the situation, they was supporting the Children living with me perminantly.

Therefore, in situation 2, it could run, as the children was at risk what needed sorting before the normal 48 hours, for Urgent Application.

On your Court Application, it will ask if your child is known to the Local Authroity, and in your situation, they will be. Thefore, the Local Authrotiy will be told of the hearing, and your Family Worker might be asked to attend a First Hearing, or a Directions Hearing might be listed, for them to attend on.
Posts made by me are my opinion and any factual information should be checked out. If you do not have a Solicitor, often your local CAB can get you some initial advice.
Reply
#5
Thanks Mark. Still going round in circles a bit. You're right, the kind of evidence for an ex parte would need to be someone like the Family Worker - emails wouldn't be enough to show what's happening whereas family worker has talked to son. Not sure she would be helpful though. She did pick up the coaching, but don't think she's heard of alienation as such, and other than that seemed to think son's Mother was a righteously concerned Mother.
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