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Confused at CSA making up my income!
#1
Hi all

I have been paying maintenance to my ex for nearly 3 years. The arrangement was she kept the car that I pay finance on and i made it up with a payment every month. She has threatened me for a long time that i must take the car back and pay her more money. She knows i cannot afford to pay for the car and pay her full money too. Anyway she went to CSA - well child maintenance service so i contacted the car finance company and they said they would take it back and send it auction, so i went and got it from her - I had worked out the maintenance i should pay on the online calculator. So I was prepared to do this. However the CMS have my income wrong - £10k over what I earn, they said i cannot change this as they received the info from the inland revenue and this includes some 25% tolerance thing(!?!?) so I have to pay over £100 a month to what i should be paying (according to online calculator) and I simply cannot afford this. I do NOT understand how they can do this??? They said they will review it in 1 year. How can they cripple me like this when i can clearly show proof of my earnings but they dont want to know.  

Any help or advice is greatly appreciated as do not know how i can afford to live.
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#2
Well, you are not the first and wont be the last to fall into this.

Happened to me and will happen to everyone
The CMS calculate your charge based on last years (Tax year of 2016-2017 now) Gross Taxable Income. That will include company car, overtime, bonuses, stock options and just about everything that the HMRC determine as income, albeit it seems unjust, it is what it is I am afraid.
Mine I pay on the co car and it bumps my GTI up by another 4 grand, and.............there's nothing at all I can do about it.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but they get their number from HMRC, at the start of your case year and work it out from that.
If you pay finance on the car and she benefits (i.e for the kids) from it, you may be able to get a reduction. It depends on how its financed but if you are giving it back then there's a moot point.
The calculator states it's an estimate as there are other factors to input, so don't take that as gospel what it says on there, a lot of people fall into that little honey pot trap.
Get the figure you earned last year from the HMRC as gross taxable income with all the trimmings included. If this matches the CMS figure, then you have little chance of changing it.

The 25% threshold (tolerance thing) is this. of you earned 100 grand a year, to be reconsidered for a drop in your charge, you would need to earn less than 75 grand to make the change, and during your case year (not tax year) and then reviewed.
I make that 100 grand figure as its easier to work out the sums but if you earn the money and you expect to get a chance, it has to be 25% less than what you are on. If you lost your job and it was 24% less, you would still pay out your charge based on the previous figure as it doesn't make threshold for mandatory reconsideration to get them to change.

Having gone through all this pain last year is the reason I know quite a bit about it. I lost my voice, temper, dignity and resolve after dealing with these cretins at can't manage s**t, sorry CMS,
so yeah, sorry you can't get any less charge, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Well there is, but I stay neutral and DO NOT condone this. But some of our members actually purposefully lost their job, to get put on benefits to get a basic charge of £20 per month levied. That won't help you or the kids and is pretty spiteful if you ask me but that's my opinion.

Go to one of my old threads as I did massive research on how the make the calculation charges
http://www.separateddads.co.uk/forum/thread-2293.html
Advice & opinions on this forum are offered informally, without any assumption of liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.
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#3
Sorry to come in on this thread- but does anyone know if the CMS actually cap payments per child? For example if I was earning millions a year (wouldn't that be nice) would CMS demand 5 figures a month?
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#4
Thank you for your reply. 

Your right, they have taken into account the company car. 

Well I have worked out i have £73 a month to live on as unfortunately I have other debts. 

I have never felt so low. Just got a mortgage with new partner which i now cannot afford. My Mum always said the ex was never going to go away until she ruined my life. Funny thing is she had an affair, she got the house that i had done all the work on. I have my daughter twice a week for tea and every other weekend from Friday night through to Sunday night. I now cannot afford to do anything with my daughter so i will be the shit dad again.
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#5
(10-04-2017, 08:49 AM)kettleman Wrote: Sorry to come in on this thread- but does anyone know if the CMS actually cap payments per child? For example if I was earning millions a year (wouldn't that be nice) would CMS demand 5 figures a month?

I have had a look at the reg's, it appears the limit is £3000 per week gross which works out at £160,000 gross per annum.
What happens after that It doesnt say, but I should imagine if you are earning that sort millions of dosh, then very expensive lawyers would be litigating and a "family based arrangement " would be put in place. The CMS doesnt need to get involved at all in any maintenance case.it does so at application of a RP, NRP. i.e for all the "paupers" under 160 grand a year ....nice money eh
Advice & opinions on this forum are offered informally, without any assumption of liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.
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#6
(10-04-2017, 02:07 PM)sammac Wrote: Thank you for your reply. 

Your right, they have taken into account the company car. 

Well I have worked out i have £73 a month to live on as unfortunately I have other debts. 

I have never felt so low. Just got a mortgage with new partner which i now cannot afford. My Mum always said the ex was never going to go away until she ruined my life. Funny thing is she had an affair, she got the house that i had done all the work on. I have my daughter twice a week for tea and every other weekend from Friday night through to Sunday night. I now cannot afford to do anything with my daughter so i will be the shit dad again.

https://www.stepchange.org/Howwecanhelpy...order.aspx
Advice & opinions on this forum are offered informally, without any assumption of liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.
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#7
I am just starting on this bitter road now....

I have same issue but they took my wages from 2 years ago when I had a better income (oil industry crash loss job etc etc).  They have ignored last years where I earned about £6000 so they started asking about my new wages, which are far from superstar.

Presently I am arguing with them that I need to pay both my family based agreement and their payments as they have not and are not sending any paper work stating that the "family based agreement" has been overruled.

Presently looks like even if I pay just the CMS it looks I will loose my home, I have already had to downsize my car and various other items are up for sale to make ends meet...

She has also reduced access to the absolute minimum in the court order (daughter and I had over time negotiated 2-3 extra nights a month) so as to increase her money.

The only answer and advice I can is the same as the only advice and I can get "I am sorry".....

I have my daughter this afternoon if its like last time it will be her telling me what the X is planning next (she is only 10)...
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#8
(10-18-2017, 09:38 AM)Puppysocks Wrote: I am just starting on this bitter road now....

I have same issue but they took my wages from 2 years ago when I had a better income (oil industry crash loss job etc etc).  They have ignored last years where I earned about £6000 so they started asking about my new wages, which are far from superstar.

Presently I am arguing with them that I need to pay both my family based agreement and their payments as they have not and are not sending any paper work stating that the "family based agreement" has been overruled.

Presently looks like even if I pay just the CMS it looks I will loose my home, I have already had to downsize my car and various other items are up for sale to make ends meet...

She has also reduced access to the absolute minimum in the court order (daughter and I had over time negotiated 2-3 extra nights a month) so as to increase her money.

The only answer and advice I can is the same as the only advice and I can get "I am sorry".....

I have my daughter this afternoon if its like last time it will be her telling me what the X is planning next (she is only 10)...

In terms of your CMS amount, if your current income expected for this case year (what starts on the day either of you pay the £20 to open it) is going to change either way by 25%, you need to inform them by law, and it is recalculated.

In terms of Contact, you need to show good reason to get a variation on a Court Order, and to be clear on this, they are not interested in the money side of things.
Its about the Childs right to have Quaitiy Time, and in my own case, when my Child was 10, their wishes and desires was considered by both Cafcass and The Local Authrotiy (note this was a case in England, Scotland and Ireland is not the same).

You would get along the lines of Friday till Sunday every 2 weeks, and up to half school holidays if you asked and was avalialble. This amounts to half the Quaity Time. If you work and only take 4 weeks of the 13 school holidays (week at Easter/Christmas and 2 weeks in the summer, plus another weekend), you will still be in the 53-104 nights a year bracket. Reductions start at 53, then increase at 105, 157 and 176 nights. No consideration is given to daytime contact.

In your case, your daughter wants an increase in contact, what is your reason for it to be looked at again.
Posts made by me are my opinion and any factual information should be checked out. If you do not have a Solicitor, often your local CAB can get you some initial advice.
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#9
(10-18-2017, 09:38 AM)Puppysocks Wrote: I am just starting on this bitter road now....

I have same issue but they took my wages from 2 years ago when I had a better income (oil industry crash loss job etc etc).  They have ignored last years where I earned about £6000 so they started asking about my new wages, which are far from superstar.

Presently I am arguing with them that I need to pay both my family based agreement and their payments as they have not and are not sending any paper work stating that the "family based agreement" has been overruled.

Presently looks like even if I pay just the CMS it looks I will loose my home, I have already had to downsize my car and various other items are up for sale to make ends meet...

She has also reduced access to the absolute minimum in the court order (daughter and I had over time negotiated 2-3 extra nights a month) so as to increase her money.

The only answer and advice I can is the same as the only advice and I can get "I am sorry".....

I have my daughter this afternoon if its like last time it will be her telling me what the X is planning next (she is only 10)...
I would ask for mandatory reconsideration urgently if it were me.

They can go back, If I remember rightly up to 6 years (regulation 4 Para 2). the 6k you earned last year wouldn't make threshold to actually pay anything out you see. So they have the right in regulations, to go back further. Thats where you apply your mandatory reconsideration, if your present gross taxable income, drops below the 25% threshold of that which the HMRC are stating your GTI is in a certain year. They even have rights to estimate your income if no historic records exist (Regulation 42)

If you have a case on you from your ex then you dont need to pay your £20. If you are setting up a case then you wouldnt be talking about how much you have to pay. 

Point of fact just so other members know, your case year, starts when the CMS say it does. This is usually around 6-8 weeks after your Ex's start their claim, pay their £20 and the CMS have done all their checks and investigations. That bit is in regulations 11 and 12 of the Child maintenance calculations regulations. It basically says, the CMS must do all their checks, once that's completed then they tell you your case start date, how much they estimate etc etc, and this becomes your "initial effective date" 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/...tents/made Check regulation 11 and 12
Advice & opinions on this forum are offered informally, without any assumption of liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.
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#10
(10-18-2017, 10:17 PM)Drew65 Wrote:
(10-18-2017, 09:38 AM)Puppysocks Wrote: I am just starting on this bitter road now....

I have same issue but they took my wages from 2 years ago when I had a better income (oil industry crash loss job etc etc).  They have ignored last years where I earned about £6000 so they started asking about my new wages, which are far from superstar.

Presently I am arguing with them that I need to pay both my family based agreement and their payments as they have not and are not sending any paper work stating that the "family based agreement" has been overruled.

Presently looks like even if I pay just the CMS it looks I will loose my home, I have already had to downsize my car and various other items are up for sale to make ends meet...

She has also reduced access to the absolute minimum in the court order (daughter and I had over time negotiated 2-3 extra nights a month) so as to increase her money.

The only answer and advice I can is the same as the only advice and I can get "I am sorry".....

I have my daughter this afternoon if its like last time it will be her telling me what the X is planning next (she is only 10)...
I would ask for mandatory reconsideration urgently if it were me.

They can go back, If I remember rightly up to 6 years (regulation 4 Para 2). the 6k you earned last year wouldn't make threshold to actually pay anything out you see. So they have the right in regulations, to go back further. Thats where you apply your mandatory reconsideration, if your present gross taxable income, drops below the 25% threshold of that which the HMRC are stating your GTI is in a certain year. They even have rights to estimate your income if no historic records exist (Regulation 42)

If you have a case on you from your ex then you dont need to pay your £20. If you are setting up a case then you wouldnt be talking about how much you have to pay. 

Point of fact just so other members know, your case year, starts when the CMS say it does. This is usually around 6-8 weeks after your Ex's start their claim, pay their £20 and the CMS have done all their checks and investigations. That bit is in regulations 11 and 12 of the Child maintenance calculations regulations. It basically says, the CMS must do all their checks, once that's completed then they tell you your case start date, how much they estimate etc etc, and this becomes your "initial effective date" 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/...tents/made Check regulation 11 and 12

In my case, what started in May 2017, the case year started on the day I paid the £20. I know there is different sections depending on if the paying person is on Benefits, Self Employed or Employed, so it might be that as I had said she is on benefits, it was allocated to that section that day, where as if the status is not known, there might be a delay in allocation.
Posts made by me are my opinion and any factual information should be checked out. If you do not have a Solicitor, often your local CAB can get you some initial advice.
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