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Daughter saying she don't want to come mine.
#1
Hi there guys,

Basically I have a court date set in January and also a CAFCASS phone interview in January and I'm really worried about something.

Bit of a background story...I have been having my daughter since she was 3, it started by having her 1 weekend a month with no problem, Then it change to having her for a week in term time then back to having her one weekend a month again, this is due to the 500 mile round trip.

At the beginning of this year I moved out of my mums house and in to my own house with my girlfriend who I have been with for 3 years and my daughter really gets on with my girlfriend so there is no issues there. But also when we moved out I also found out that I was going to be a father again and since letting my daughters mum know this information she as said my daughter doesn't want to come down anymore, There as always been little issues leaving her mum plus she does get a travel sick which i give her tablets for but now her Mum is saying she needs to start listening to what 'daughter' wants and she's doing what's best for her. This has been going on since the beginning of this year and now I'm only seeing once a month on a sunday. I have asked my daughter why she doesn't want to come down and she says she doesn't feel ready yet. I have given her the option to stay at my mums (her nanna's) house with me while she is down and even the option of going down in a bigger car  with my mum (her nanna) to keep her occupied. 

I just feel since the big news there is some parental alienation going on, I feel like she doesn't encourage her to go like she used to before and now is making the situation worse. im spending less time with her and i feel like i can't be a dad by doing dad things like sitting and watching a film on settee together..cooking tea for her and putting her to bed etc.    

Also I ring her on fridays at a set time (requested by her mother) but when I ring she's never at home. She's always in a situation where she doesn't really want to talk on the phone..she would rather play with her friend or she's in the middle of town shopping with her and i just feel like all these distractions are just pulling her away from me, the phone conversations only last a 5 minutes..10 minutes if i'm lucky. 

Should i be worried? or will this get better once court have decided on dates I have her etc. Or am i forcing my daughter to do something she doesn't really want to do?

I have lost my confidence with going to court and representing myself thinking my daughter doesn't want to come down and with her saying it herself I just don't want to think or do.
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#2
Hi frogs

This smells like bullsh*t, and I reckon your ex is the source. She's certainly spreading something.

I reckon someone's been in your daughter's ear at best, or frankly making the whole thing up at worst. The fact that you've had to get CAFCASS involved suggests that this hasn't been plain sailing has it?

How old is your daughter BTW? If she's of primary school age, then she's legally not capable of making the decision not to see you. And it's your exes legal obligation to ensure that contact is maintained.

I have a similar situation and those are the exact words of my Solicitor on the subject.
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#3
(12-21-2017, 08:39 PM)frogs422 Wrote: Hi there guys,

Basically I have a court date set in January and also a CAFCASS phone interview in January and I'm really worried about something.

Bit of a background story...I have been having my daughter since she was 3, it started by having her 1 weekend a month with no problem, Then it change to having her for a week in term time then back to having her one weekend a month again, this is due to the 500 mile round trip.

At the beginning of this year I moved out of my mums house and in to my own house with my girlfriend who I have been with for 3 years and my daughter really gets on with my girlfriend so there is no issues there. But also when we moved out I also found out that I was going to be a father again and since letting my daughters mum know this information she as said my daughter doesn't want to come down anymore, There as always been little issues leaving her mum plus she does get a travel sick which i give her tablets for but now her Mum is saying she needs to start listening to what 'daughter' wants and she's doing what's best for her. This has been going on since the beginning of this year and now I'm only seeing once a month on a sunday. I have asked my daughter why she doesn't want to come down and she says she doesn't feel ready yet. I have given her the option to stay at my mums (her nanna's) house with me while she is down and even the option of going down in a bigger car  with my mum (her nanna) to keep her occupied. 

I just feel since the big news there is some parental alienation going on, I feel like she doesn't encourage her to go like she used to before and now is making the situation worse. im spending less time with her and i feel like i can't be a dad by doing dad things like sitting and watching a film on settee together..cooking tea for her and putting her to bed etc.    

Also I ring her on fridays at a set time (requested by her mother) but when I ring she's never at home. She's always in a situation where she doesn't really want to talk on the phone..she would rather play with her friend or she's in the middle of town shopping with her and i just feel like all these distractions are just pulling her away from me, the phone conversations only last a 5 minutes..10 minutes if i'm lucky. 

Should i be worried? or will this get better once court have decided on dates I have her etc. Or am i forcing my daughter to do something she doesn't really want to do?

I have lost my confidence with going to court and representing myself thinking my daughter doesn't want to come down and with her saying it herself I just don't want to think or do.

As far as the law is concerned, if the Child is old enough for Wishes and Desires to be included (what is 10 in England, but not the same in other parts of the UK), then this is put to Court after meetings with a 3rd party, normally Cafcass who are put in as a Guardian, but it can be Social Services. Their meetings with the child take place without either parent present, normally at school.

Regarding the phone calls, if they are part of an order, it can be enforced. Often the ex will say the child wanted to do soemthing else, but if a C79 is filed, a fine or unpaid work can still be ordered, as the Court has same make the child avaliable.
Posts made by me are my opinion and any factual information should be checked out. If you do not have a Solicitor, often your local CAB can get you some initial advice.
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#4
In terms of the emotional aspect of all this, you need to hang out in there and you need too to take what your daughter is alleged to have said with a pinch of salt. Bear in mind this follows on from your announcement to the ex, so it's linked. Sorry but Pete is right, it's BS. Basically it's at best a bit of misplaced loyalty to your ex or at worst it's parental alienation. Either way it is out of order. Regardless of whether she said it or not, you need to keep in mind the future. You do not want your daughter to drop out of your life altogether so hang on in there, come what may. And I'm going through the same thing at three moment which of course is just another strategy of my ex.
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#5
Hi there. Facts. You've moved into a house with your girlfriend and she's having a baby. Mum is now preventing contact as she feels threatened by this so yes it's pressure and alienation on your daughter. Kids don't say things like "they don't feel ready" that's adult language. How old is your daughter? It is nerve wracking waiting for court - very. But stay calm if you can. Be calm and straight with Cafcass. Don't slag off your ex. Tell them about the good regular relationship with your daughter since she was three and express your concerns at the difficulties in getting to see her and contact her. And be clear that your concerns are for your daughter who you feel is under pressure and affected by the loss of her long standing happy relationship with you.

Have you been to mediation? I doubt it will help when one person doesn't want to play ball (eg your ex) but you're expected to before applying to court and have to have attended a MIAM and been signed off. But expect you've done that already if you have a court application in.

Main thing is - let Cafcass know this has been a very long standing regular contact with your daugher with no previous issues - so they don't just get the negative picture from the ex that child doesn't want to come - gets travel sick etc. As if it's a recent thing.

The only reluctance your daughter will have is the pressure from her Mother. It's alienation because it puts the child in the middle and causes divided loyalties - they want to make their Mother happy and also you happy but the Mother has more opportunity to put her under pressure and it's easier to reject the more easy going parent. She loves you. She doesn't want to reject you - she's under pressure and trying to cope.

Otherwise she'd be excited at having a new home and a new baby brother/sister. I've got something similar - a change triggers the ex trying to control and remove you from the kid's life. I moved house wiht partner of 9 years. But my ex now looks to the future and sees my partner inheriting and "her" son possibly living with my partner if I pop my clogs,when he's grown up. They think way ahead and try to prevent it. She won'tlike the idea of daughter being happy with a normal happy family - ie you and gf and half sibling.

It'll be fine - get it sorted in a court order. Be yourself with Cafcass phone call. If you do mention you think daughter is under pressure - put it like that - concerns that daughter is under pressure not to want to come and that she is missing her familiar routine, home, possessions and activities at your home. Because that is exactly what is happening. Don't mention the word "alienation" to Cafcass though. Best to skirt around it with language like - it's alien for her to say things like xyz and she seems under pressure and you're worried for her and about the disruption and change.
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#6
(12-21-2017, 10:35 PM)Petem Wrote: Hi frogs

This smells like bullsh*t, and I reckon your ex is the source. She's certainly spreading something.

I reckon someone's been in your daughter's ear at best, or frankly making the whole thing up at worst. The fact that you've had to get CAFCASS involved suggests that this hasn't been plain sailing has it?

How old is your daughter BTW? If she's of primary school age, then she's legally not capable of making the decision not to see you. And it's your exes legal obligation to ensure that contact is maintained.

I have a similar situation and those are the exact words of my Solicitor on the subject.
Hi Pete, Thank you for your reply. 

Speaking about someone being in her ear, I forgot to mention that my daughter as a 'school mentor' which I've never heard of to be honest. I have 5 nieces & nephews raging from 3-13 and not once have I heard them having a school mentor. This mentor as even said to my ex that she advised my her not to come down as it causes her distress and effects her school as well. 

I have not actually spoke to this mentor, I do have a contact number and name for the mentor but never contacted them. I am really am tempted to contact them to get the full side of the story and also get them to send it to me by email. But how they can advise her if for 1. she's only 6 years old 2. they have never contacted me and asked me any questions etc (basically only knowing one side of the story) .

My CAFCASS phone interview is tomorrow, I am pretty nervous but I have been reading up on this, All I need is my daughters best interest at heart, not the he said she said game. Hopefully things will go well.
 
(12-22-2017, 07:35 AM)MarkR Wrote:
(12-21-2017, 08:39 PM)frogs422 Wrote: Hi there guys,

Basically I have a court date set in January and also a CAFCASS phone interview in January and I'm really worried about something.

Bit of a background story...I have been having my daughter since she was 3, it started by having her 1 weekend a month with no problem, Then it change to having her for a week in term time then back to having her one weekend a month again, this is due to the 500 mile round trip.

At the beginning of this year I moved out of my mums house and in to my own house with my girlfriend who I have been with for 3 years and my daughter really gets on with my girlfriend so there is no issues there. But also when we moved out I also found out that I was going to be a father again and since letting my daughters mum know this information she as said my daughter doesn't want to come down anymore, There as always been little issues leaving her mum plus she does get a travel sick which i give her tablets for but now her Mum is saying she needs to start listening to what 'daughter' wants and she's doing what's best for her. This has been going on since the beginning of this year and now I'm only seeing once a month on a sunday. I have asked my daughter why she doesn't want to come down and she says she doesn't feel ready yet. I have given her the option to stay at my mums (her nanna's) house with me while she is down and even the option of going down in a bigger car  with my mum (her nanna) to keep her occupied. 

I just feel since the big news there is some parental alienation going on, I feel like she doesn't encourage her to go like she used to before and now is making the situation worse. im spending less time with her and i feel like i can't be a dad by doing dad things like sitting and watching a film on settee together..cooking tea for her and putting her to bed etc.    

Also I ring her on fridays at a set time (requested by her mother) but when I ring she's never at home. She's always in a situation where she doesn't really want to talk on the phone..she would rather play with her friend or she's in the middle of town shopping with her and i just feel like all these distractions are just pulling her away from me, the phone conversations only last a 5 minutes..10 minutes if i'm lucky. 

Should i be worried? or will this get better once court have decided on dates I have her etc. Or am i forcing my daughter to do something she doesn't really want to do?

I have lost my confidence with going to court and representing myself thinking my daughter doesn't want to come down and with her saying it herself I just don't want to think or do.

As far as the law is concerned, if the Child is old enough for Wishes and Desires to be included (what is 10 in England, but not the same in other parts of the UK), then this is put to Court after meetings with a 3rd party, normally Cafcass who are put in as a Guardian, but it can be Social Services. Their meetings with the child take place without either parent present, normally at school.

Regarding the phone calls, if they are part of an order, it can be enforced. Often the ex will say the child wanted to do soemthing else, but if a C79 is filed, a fine or unpaid work can still be ordered, as the Court has same make the child avaliable.
Hi MarkR, my daughter is 6 years old so she's not old enough for wishes and desires. Would CAFCASS be having meeting with my daughter in school? or does this only apply when there 10 years old? 

Luckily since I have applied for courts I now have a set day and time when i speak to my daughter on the phone. I even got a surprise FaceTime last friday which i have been asking for 3 years! This is something I have requested in my covering letter to court. So hopefully this will be part of my order. I do also have over 100 screenshots from the past 2-3 years of my ex making various excuses that my daughter is too busy to talk etc. 

(12-22-2017, 07:45 PM)Chi21965 Wrote: In terms of the emotional aspect of all this, you need to hang out  in there and you need too to take what your daughter is alleged to have said with a pinch of salt. Bear in mind this follows on from your announcement to the ex, so it's linked. Sorry but Pete is right, it's BS. Basically it's at best a bit of misplaced loyalty to your ex or at worst it's parental alienation. Either way it is out of order. Regardless of whether she said it or not, you need to keep in mind the future. You do not want your daughter to drop  out of your life altogether so hang on in there, come what may. And I'm going through the same thing at three moment which of course is just another strategy of my ex.
Thank you for your reply Chi, I will keep what you said in mind and will try and be positive through all of this. I do get my confidence back when I actually see my daughter. it gives me reassurance that she loves me. When I see her its like I have never been away!

(12-22-2017, 10:13 PM)Charlie7000 Wrote: Hi there.  Facts.  You've moved into a house with your girlfriend and she's having a baby.   Mum is now preventing contact as she feels threatened by this so yes it's pressure and alienation on your daughter.  Kids don't say things like "they don't feel ready" that's adult language.  How old is your daughter?   It is nerve wracking waiting for court - very.  But stay calm if you can.   Be calm and straight with Cafcass.  Don't slag off your ex.  Tell them about the good regular relationship with your daughter since she was three and express your concerns at the difficulties in getting to see her and contact her.  And be clear that your concerns are for your daughter who you feel is under pressure and affected by the loss of her long standing happy relationship with you.

Have you been to mediation?  I doubt it will help when one person doesn't want to play ball (eg your ex) but you're expected to before applying to court and have to have attended a MIAM and been signed off.   But expect you've done that already if you have a court application in.

Main thing is - let Cafcass know this has been a very long standing regular contact with your daugher with no previous issues - so they don't just get the negative picture from the ex that child doesn't want to come - gets travel sick etc.   As if it's a recent thing.

The only reluctance your daughter will have is the pressure from her Mother.   It's alienation because it puts the child in the middle and causes divided loyalties - they want to make their Mother happy and also you happy but the Mother has more opportunity to put her under pressure and it's easier to reject the more easy going parent.  She loves you.  She doesn't want to reject you - she's under pressure and trying to cope.

Otherwise she'd be excited at having a new home and a new baby brother/sister.  I've got something similar - a change triggers the ex trying to control and remove you from the kid's life.  I moved house wiht partner of 9 years.  But my ex now looks to the future and sees my partner inheriting and "her" son possibly living with my partner if I pop my clogs,when he's grown up.   They think way ahead and try to prevent it.  She won'tlike the idea of daughter being happy with a normal happy family - ie you and gf and half sibling.

It'll be fine - get it sorted in a court order.  Be yourself with Cafcass phone call.  If you do mention you think daughter is under pressure - put it like that - concerns that daughter is under pressure not to want to come and that she is missing her familiar routine, home, possessions and activities at your home.  Because that is exactly what is happening.  Don't mention the word "alienation" to Cafcass though.  Best to skirt around it with language like - it's alien for her to say things like xyz and she seems under pressure and you're worried for her and about the disruption and change.

Hi charlie, Thank you so much the reply, Sorry It's been a while replying to this. 

Yes! I agree its adult talk. She's only 6 years old but her mother insist she's got to do what's in my daughters best interest.

I have my CAFCASS interview tomorrow so I have took your advice and had a good read up on forum and peoples dealings with CAFCASS.

Yes we have been through mediation I did my first interview she did hers, I then stalled on the 2nd lot of mediation after seeing my daughter upset and not wanting to leave her mum. But then went ahead with it but her mum refused which lead me to court. Court will go ahead in a couple of weeks.

She got to meet her half sibling last weekend. And it went really well its like they had that sister bond straight away!

Thank you for your advice and I have took it all on board.
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