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help pls. Just a quick question
I really think that the monster of the ex has a brain of a dodo.. 

She keeps breaching the order around contacts. Never returns my son back on time at each contact and never at the agreed venue.

She has just texted stating  that she will not be returning him at 12pm due to the time she had missed while he was at homework club on wed and will return him once she has had that time back at 1pm?

I have just been to court  on wed too and got the appeal granted, but still have the headache of the current order in place which should have had a stay on it .

Is it now I need to vary the current order  because?
1. breaches  of times of return and non return at every contact since Oct17
2. appeal granted due to  contact concerns  DV and impact on the child and Procedures not being followed by court ,

Can someone help me get my head round this please.

if the previous order which is in force now  has been  appealed and the appeal granted and listed for a re trial. Why would they continue the current order?????as there was serious errors by the magistrates in making the order.

what can I do?/
With regard to her saying she will keep him till 1pm instead of 12, I would do nothing right now, except keep a record of that message for the retrial later.

It sounds like they can't change the current order without the retrial and therefore it continues, and you are stuck with keeping an eye on things or calling social services or the police if you have concerns.

I'm not sure you could apply to vary before the retrial. I would have thought all the breaches could be taken into consideration to help make the decisions at the retrial.

It may mean more than one hearing but someone else should know more about the legal things and hearings.
You are best sticking to your current court order until it gets back to court. The courts arent really going to do much or want to get too involved if your ex brings your child back 1 hour late. They normally get involved if they are serious breaches.
Best to log everything that happens as if she is doing it every single time then most likely wouldnt be happy about it.
Yes I agree, however the breaches are at every contact since the micky mouse order was created in October.

The current order literally places the child at risk.
With a person who is not only violent but her parenting ability is non existent.

I hate bad mouthing the mother, but my sons welfare comes first.

The appeal Court already highlighted practice direction 12j was not adhered to when deciding the final order and have directed a retrial.

Yet contradicts by saying the order remains.which im confused about.

I had to call the police again today due to non return , the main reason is re previous threats and potential flight risk . Plus concerns of abuse neglect etc that still has not been addressed with the mother.

Since the order there have been 22 breaches of non return. Repeat incidents physical and emotional harm etc , threatening behaviours . U name it, its happened and all I have done is record everything.
Since the start of the first hearing I would say there has been like 40 incidents. But that's ok cos I'm not a mother so we will must ignore them.

The problem is you cant win. You try and protect your children from harm but the system promotes it.

What's the point of having the appeal granted when the children remain at risk of harm.

Social services will not place children at harm in the similar situation so why is it ok when family proceeding are ongoing.
I need more pens to keep the diary flowing.
The court order remains until your re trial. so basically you have to log everything she does wrong and keep proof as can be used as evidence. When you go back to court its then hopefully you can change your order. They may place you both on a separated parents information programme possibly as the courts will expect you to co-parent until they are older which will mean communicating on a regular basis putting children 1st
Yes agree, Attended a SPP already, I wont attend again as its will be a waste of time, Im fully aware of impact of conflict etc with the work I do.
Any other time this situation would flag up with professionals. But appears to be ignored.

The confusion is that an appeal was granted due to failing of procedures under practice direction 12j.
As follows
Where the court is considering whether to make an order for interim contact, it should in addition consider –

(a) the arrangements required to ensure, as far as possible, that any risk of harm to the child and the parent who is at any time caring for the child is minimised and that the safety of the child and the parties is secured; and in particular:

(i) whether the contact should be supervised or supported, and if so, where and by whom; and

(ii) the availability of appropriate facilities for that purpose;

(b) if direct contact is not appropriate, whether it is in the best interests of the child to make an order for indirect contact; and

© whether contact will be beneficial for the child.


So basically the order hearing before the final contested hearing contact was safe. So unsure why they would continue a order where there was flaws and unsafe .
The current order is not workin and was doomed to fail at the start.

My position throughout was
My position was on the final hearing was
-No overnight contact until parenting programme completed by the mother and secured accommodation of her own.
-awareness programme around domestic violence.

-Supervised or supported contact while the above is completed as to safeguard my son .
-a family assisted order 12months
-No overseas contact due to flight risk
All you can do to safeguard your son until the retrial is keep records of non returns, call the Police or social services. If the Police go and have concerns, they have powers to remove I think for 24 hours and then you'd be able to apply for an emergency hearing to keep son with you until it's looked into. Maybe put in writing to social services specific incidents that have occurred and ask for them to keep an eye on things? If you put it in writing to them, then presumably they would be liable if there was an injury and they had not done anything.

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