Poll: Is this system fair in 2018?
This poll is closed.
No
100.00%
8 100.00%
Yes
0%
0 0%
Total 8 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Injustice of Child Benefit and Child Tax Credits after separation.
#1
Sad 
Angry   End the inequality of Child Tax Credits and Child Benefit after a separation.  Angry


After a separation a "none resident" parent with shared 50/50 caring is not entitled to claim Child Tax Credits easily and fairly under the current system. 

This is causing children to live half their lives in poverty. As personally experienced by a none resident parent unable to feed my children.

When a child is born 1 parent claims the Child benefit. At the direct time of separation in a 50/50% contact scenario only the "resident parent" can claim the Child Tax Credit benefit due to being in receipt of the Child Benefit. If I was classed as the "Resident" parent i.e. I received the Child benefit too, I would be able to claim Child Tax Credits and my children would not have to experience a food-bank again. End the inequality! None resident parents and children deserve a fairer system.

Here is an example of what I would personally receive if they were "resident":

[Image: Capture2.png]

My personal story and mission to my MP: Vote to my MP 

Click this link to sign the petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/212941/sponsors/new?token=BaYF2v7J7c4SGFL4EhY


Thanks guys, any support or advice would be awesome.
Reply
#2
No the system is not fair, i believe that only 1 parent can claim the benefits? Im sure ive read that somewhere and its why the courts dont very often order complete 50/50 shared care. Someone has to be seen as to be the main career to get the benefits. The one getting the benefits also gets access to other benefits such as free child care etc.

Where did you find that info out? I had a look at one site to see what my ex is likely to get and tbh its no wonder she is happy working part time and playing the game that she works because she wants to and not in her words be "scum claiming benefits and sitting at home". Anyway from what i know she has 2 children, 1 isnt mine but she could get as much as £325 a week in benefits. Bearing in mind this is on top of her part time wages and then my maintenance money. Im not entirely sure ive done it right tbh but that is some joke. It means she is on about £500 a week cash in hand!! She would never earn that in full time work.

Now dont get me wrong i dont blame people one bit for this, the system is a mess and it pays people to stay at home and not work, they will be worse off if they work or little better off which makes them think its not actually worth it. The calculation i did also doesnt take into account that if i had 50/50 care, which is what i want in the end. Or even 104 nights or whatever. Because she gets child benefit she will still get all of that regardless. It doesnt ask about how many nights the child lives there.

Its not only the benefits system that is flawed. The maintenance system is just as bad. IMO its completely wrong that it is based on the non resident parents salary for starters because that has no bearing on what a child needs. Its also calculated on your salary before tax and NI, so takes into account money you dont even get! The more you earn the more you pay basically, but why does a child only need say £40 a week if i earn £300 but the same child needs £70 a week if i earn say £550? The childs needs dont go up because i earn more. I may be wrong but the thing also is that maintenance is not taken into consideration when it comes to what benefits the resident parents gets. So they are basically getting what they need twice, right?

Yes i understand that you should give your child the best you can and you should willingly pay towards your childs upkeep, i have always paid for my daughter. But we all know that all that money is not spent on the children by any stretch of the imagination.
Anyway my point is it works the same way when it comes to shared care. If i was to have my daughter 50/50 the most the maintenance will accept is 175 nights or more a year. That works out at 350 nights a year total with 15 days to spare which i could have her on anyway for all they know. They say even if i had that and i had my daughter half the time i would still have to pay the ex £27 a week based on my earnings.

So why should i have to pay my ex this when i have my daughter half the time? Even when she is with me i still have to pay the ex this weekly amount? Why? If i have her half the time then i have to provide all the same things the ex does and have the same costs. All you ever hear from the government is about making absent parents pay for their children and yes they should no doubt but they never shout out about parents being denied contact, they still chase them for payment. All the mother has to do is call CMS and tell them you dont have your child and they will take their word as gospel and tell you you have to pay.

IMHO the whole system is wrong and contributes hugely to the issue when it comes to contact and is half the reason why people end up in court because one parent does not want to lose a big chunk of income. From what i can see the courts even take the benefits system into account when they are deciding what contact you get.

Sorry about that i went off on a bit of a rant.
Reply
#3
That is a fantastic post there charlie.. Take a bow. nailed it.
Reply
#4
Agreed, everything you have said hits home mate. I'm a full time worker with kids. The three of us deserve better and so does the nation.
Reply
#5
There are ways to do it if you have an even number of kids. Both claim for 1 or two each and you begin by putting in a rival claim for child benefit.

It gets trickier if there are 3 , 5 or only one child.

However the government can do whatever they want to do either by changing the law or by software updates. I mean how hard is it to split child benefit when you consider the lengths they go to to get child maintenance of an NRP in some instances such as taking it direct from wages.

It’s more a case of that they won’t rather than can’t I think. Software can do anything it is programmed to do.

They can seize back tax credit overpayments , deduct for various bills under Universal Credit and so on.

Nothing is impossible.

Even the residency issue can be a bit of a red herring as some foreign nationals can claim child benefit for non resident children. https://www.gov.uk/child-benefit-move-to-uk

Tax credit should be straightforward. If you have the kids half the time then work out your entitlement based on full time then halve it. Simples! Probably wouldn’t even need new software to do that.

It may take a court case to change it or an appeal via tax credits/ child benefits system appeals procedure (which would be cheaper).

This ruling probably also needs challenging. - https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/u...dgment.pdf
Reply
#6
(02-15-2018, 01:19 PM)Waterhouse24 Wrote: Angry   End the inequality of Child Tax Credits and Child Benefit after a separation.  Angry


After a separation a "none resident" parent with shared 50/50 caring is not entitled to claim Child Tax Credits easily and fairly under the current system. 

This is causing children to live half their lives in poverty. As personally experienced by a none resident parent unable to feed my children.

When a child is born 1 parent claims the Child benefit. At the direct time of separation in a 50/50% contact scenario only the "resident parent" can claim the Child Tax Credit benefit due to being in receipt of the Child Benefit. If I was classed as the "Resident" parent i.e. I received the Child benefit too, I would be able to claim Child Tax Credits and my children would not have to experience a food-bank again. End the inequality! None resident parents and children deserve a fairer system.

Here is an example of what I would personally receive if they were "resident":

[Image: Capture2.png]

My personal story and mission to my MP: Vote to my MP 

Click this link to sign the petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/212941/sponsors/new?token=BaYF2v7J7c4SGFL4EhY


Thanks guys, any support or advice would be awesome.

Fact, the law of the UK is that both parents have to support their child.
Fact, the CMS system does take into account how much time is spent with the other parent.
Fact, Child Tax Credit is related to the Income of the person who gets Child Benefit, and that of any partner they have.
Fact, there is a shortage of Housing for Familys, due to people who have more bedrooms that what they need. There is not enough housing for a child to have 2 bedrooms.
Fact, When making decisions on how long the child will spend with the other parnet, they know what income they have.

If they can not afford shared care, they should not expect the taxpayer to pick up the cost.
Posts made by me are my opinion and any factual information should be checked out. If you do not have a Solicitor, often your local CAB can get you some initial advice.
Reply
#7
You’re wrong here Mark where the benefit system is concerned. There IS an injustice there which has been acknowledged.

The court case I linked to says it IS discriminatory but justified. Which still means it is discriminatory really.

The centre for social justice agrees it is discriminatory.

Getting some of your OWN money back for 1 or two nights a week doesn’t necessarily mean you have enough income to support kids properly as shown by the tax credit calculator.

Non resident parents are classed as single childless people on the benefit system and get zilch for supporting kids it is unfair which ever way you look at it.

A non resident parent can be on JSA (73.10 a week) and have his kids twice a week and still get nothing at all for them. Those kids will be in poverty when with him never mind himself. Courts are quite happy for him to have this contact on what the UN says is a manifestly inadequate income. There cannot be a rational explanation for allowing this kind of poverty when you have your children.

The shortage of housing is government led. They’ve done sweet FA about it for many many years and are still selling off council houses and in some areas they have increased the discount to sell more. Council houses will soon be a thing of the past. They may be privatised and rents set at 80% of market rate.

It’s ok saying if they cannot afford shared care they can’t expect tax payer to pick up the cost when the number of minimum wage jobs, zero hours contracts etc are rising. Also traditional men’s well paid industrial jobs are vanishing and more and more men are going part time. The government are again partly to blame for all this.

Couples also get state support. So it’s not a simple case of expecting tax payer to bail you out it’s more that where people are working but still in poverty in work poverty has been rising for a number of years now because the pay is dire. This won’t change unless the minimum wage becomes an amount people can live on without needing state support whether they be lone parents, non resident parents or couples.
Reply
#8
"If they can not afford shared care, they should not expect the taxpayer to pick up the cost."

But the taxpayer is expected to pay the resident parent that cannot afford it.

Inequality, in a world where equality is BIG.

Shouldn't equality start with the family first?
Reply
#9
The only other way to sort it out if the government don’t want to pay non resident parents benefits is to allow you to earn an amount you need (based on what you should get on the benefit system) to meet what they law says you would need to live and to support kids how ever many days a week you have them BEFORE you pay any child maintenance.

If you earn above benefit levels then you pay but the payment should never take you below what you need (based on benefit law) unless you also have arrears to pay perhaps.

Remember child maintenance rates where you start to pay ( earnings of £7-100) is unchanged in 20 years. Yup, 20 years!
Reply
#10
(02-15-2018, 06:44 PM)MarkR Wrote:
(02-15-2018, 01:19 PM)Waterhouse24 Wrote: Angry   End the inequality of Child Tax Credits and Child Benefit after a separation.  Angry


After a separation a "none resident" parent with shared 50/50 caring is not entitled to claim Child Tax Credits easily and fairly under the current system. 

This is causing children to live half their lives in poverty. As personally experienced by a none resident parent unable to feed my children.

When a child is born 1 parent claims the Child benefit. At the direct time of separation in a 50/50% contact scenario only the "resident parent" can claim the Child Tax Credit benefit due to being in receipt of the Child Benefit. If I was classed as the "Resident" parent i.e. I received the Child benefit too, I would be able to claim Child Tax Credits and my children would not have to experience a food-bank again. End the inequality! None resident parents and children deserve a fairer system.

Here is an example of what I would personally receive if they were "resident":

[Image: Capture2.png]

My personal story and mission to my MP: Vote to my MP 

Click this link to sign the petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/212941/sponsors/new?token=BaYF2v7J7c4SGFL4EhY


Thanks guys, any support or advice would be awesome.

Fact, the law of the UK is that both parents have to support their child.
Fact, the CMS system does take into account how much time is spent with the other parent.
Fact, Child Tax Credit is related to the Income of the person who gets Child Benefit, and that of any partner they have.
Fact, there is a shortage of Housing for Familys, due to people who have more bedrooms that what they need. There is not enough housing for a child to have 2 bedrooms.
Fact, When making decisions on how long the child will spend with the other parnet, they know what income they have.

If they can not afford shared care, they should not expect the taxpayer to pick up the cost.

(02-15-2018, 07:44 PM)Waterhouse24 Wrote: "If they can not afford shared care, they should not expect the taxpayer to pick up the cost."

But the taxpayer is expected to pay the resident parent that cannot afford it.

Inequality, in a world where equality is BIG.

Shouldn't equality start with the family first?

To be honest MarkR, I know it's an injustice when after a year of living like this, I'd recovered from depression and saw a chance to make the children's lives more bearable when they were with me. If she refused the offer i'd have to give up my job and give up a night because of the costs. She refused but instead of being amicable she phoned the social services up because the children didn't answer their phone after 20 minutes. In the year we have being separated she has never taken this kind of action before. She stopped all contact, not replying to the weekly email we are allowed to send. The lack of communication the other day caused a Missing Children Alert to go out and I was asked to search the local area for 45 minutes before the police phoned me back to say she had picked them up directly from school on my arranged day. All after I had told her I had no chance but to give my job up (because the poverty is driving me downhill with my mental health along with other reasons). It may come across as benefit grabbing but why is it not seen this way when the resident parent does it legally?

Plus i'd rather be alive for my children than let the current situation lead me to suicide.
Reply


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Child Benefit reclaim letter miker_71uk 12 2,773 08-29-2019, 08:57 AM
Last Post: miker_71uk
  Child benefit – shared care Goetia 27 5,959 07-18-2019, 05:27 AM
Last Post: juddermeister
  Advice Please - Child Tax Credits Pulling Teeth 8 4,401 06-06-2019, 08:30 AM
Last Post: Pulling Teeth
  Ex is claiming child tax credits? is it wrong? vincent1684 5 1,561 05-18-2019, 02:08 PM
Last Post: MarkR
  Is she in receipt of tax credits? Chester Copperpot 2 1,032 03-11-2019, 10:16 PM
Last Post: watsa64
  Child benefit / maintenance markrugby 2 1,281 11-22-2018, 10:59 PM
Last Post: Hazy
  Child Benefit Counter claim luhkyuht23 2 1,167 10-29-2018, 01:18 PM
Last Post: MarkR
  CMS, Consent Order, Child Benefit blah2335 7 2,774 10-22-2018, 09:29 AM
Last Post: mickeyp
  High income child benefit charge miker_71uk 3 1,637 09-26-2018, 06:05 AM
Last Post: miker_71uk
  Child Benefit Payments RockAndAHardPlace 1 1,042 09-18-2018, 08:39 PM
Last Post: MarkR



Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)