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Just had final hearing
#11
way to go charlie, yaaaaaaa
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#12
"Ive just received ex' reply from solicitor. She is applying for a lives with order. My life will be a living hell if she gets that order. rather panicked now. "

Naive - Don't understand. Are there no orders at the moment? Have you submitted your application already? Ask about submitting a counter application for "lives with both parents" (not sure if you can do a counter application but ask anyway!)

Thanks Avadad.
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#13
So I have to say this is something that’s gone over my head. There is no current order. I’ve made the application, fhdra is soon. Solicitor told me that ex has sent the forms back and she is applying for a “lives with” order.
I’m really confused, I thought a shared care arrangements order covered who she lives with and when.
I’ve been reading and it says the resident parent can holiday 30 days without consent but non resident needs permission.
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#14
Was your application for shared care? Presumably her response argument is just against that and asking for "lives with" her and "spends time with" you. The overseas holiday thing isn't that important - unless you like overseas holidays. It can help to have that without needing ex's consent.
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#15
Yeah, so I have the form here and where it asks "Will you make an application" its ticked yes, and underneath it written "Lives with CAO"

Its very important because I have yet to have a holiday abroad with my girl, last year I tried to arrange a holiday and the ex said go ahead and book it but I wont give you the passport until the day you leave. Yet she is proposing to CAFCASS that I only have her 4 days, to increase by one day per year, she clearly was never going to give me the passport day we left wasting thousands of pounds.
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#16
Whether you get "lives with" or not you can have the order defined and ask for it to be added that she has to release the passport within 21 days of any holiday you have booked, or for any other reason on request. If she doesn't she's in breach. But you still don't want the anxiety so lived with would help with that. Read your other thread - I would not negotiate down at all at this stage. Just say no :-)
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#17
Well Done Charlie, im just wondering what is the significance of having "lives with" in the order is? Is it something to do with her being the primary carer or something? And also how did you argue for it in order to get it?
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#18
Since they got rid of "Residence" and "Contact" and called orders Child Arrangements orders, it became "Lives with" or "Spends time with". So an order might say. Child lives with Mother and spends EOW and half the holidays with Father.

"Lives with both parents" is what "Shared Residence" used to be. So an order would say "Child lives with both parents. With Father EOW, every Thursday and half the school holidays. With Mother the rest of the time.

The difference is it confers equal status - although that is more psychological as PR gives equal status anyway. But it takes away the idea (especially with a nightmare ex) that she is more important than you and can call all the shots. Basically it is a shared care order. Whereas with the Mother having the "lives with" they see it that the child only has one home,with them, and what they say goes and they have free rein to do whatever without consulting the Dad, and that the kids just "go somewhere". By stating child lives with both parents and it is equal sharing of care, despite unequal nights, then it gives that statement and psychological shift that you are equally important as parents.

To be honest it doesn't matter whether it is "lives with" or "spends time with" if you have a reasonable ex who accepts time with the Dad is important. And in some ways it makes no difference at all. Having a "Lives with both parents" order can be seen as a remedy to a hostile ex, to get the balance of power back a bit.

I have always considered son to have two homes - but in ex's eyes he only had one home and "just stayed here" and I was a lesser being. Now he officially has two homes, which I like.
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#19
(02-28-2018, 06:55 PM)Charlie7000 Wrote: Since they got rid of "Residence" and "Contact" and called orders Child Arrangements orders, it became "Lives with" or "Spends time with".  So an order might say.  Child lives with Mother and spends EOW and half the holidays with Father.

"Lives with both parents" is what "Shared Residence" used to be.  So an order would say "Child lives with both parents.  With Father EOW, every Thursday and half the school holidays.  With Mother the rest of the time.

The difference is it confers equal status - although that is more psychological as PR gives equal status anyway.   But it takes away the idea (especially with a nightmare ex) that she is more important than you and can call all the shots.  Basically it is a shared care order.  Whereas with the Mother having the "lives with" they see it that the child only has one home,with them, and what they say goes and they have free rein to do whatever without consulting the Dad, and that the kids just "go somewhere".  By stating child lives with both parents and it is equal sharing of care, despite unequal nights, then it gives that statement and psychological shift that you are equally important as parents.

To be honest it doesn't matter whether it is "lives with" or "spends time with" if you have a reasonable ex who accepts time with the Dad is important.  And in some ways it makes no difference at all.  Having a "Lives with both parents" order can be seen as a remedy to a hostile ex, to get the balance of power back a bit.

I have always considered son to have two homes - but in ex's eyes he only had one home and "just stayed here" and I was a lesser being.  Now he officially has two homes, which I like.

Ah right i get you, that was what i was thinking and it is something i will probably need to look at myself then because my ex is set against contact and told the court she is only going contact centre because she has to basically. I have no doubt i will have problems with her thinking she has all the say in anything and it will still be her who decides. I actually dread the order saying contact will increase at such a such time by agreement or whatever because i know she will not agree to anything unless she is the one making the decision and it obviously suits her. Reasonable is not even a consideration with her. 

My daughter is only 15 months old and i hadnt seen her for a while so i asked for progressive contact working towards near 50/50 once she goes to nursery, or school full time. My ex works part time so i wont get that until she goes to school i dont think as i will be at work in the day and she wont for the most. Although i see no reason why i couldnt have her for the night and drop her back to mom one midweek night. 

So was that the argument you put for it or just the way you see it?  How do go about arguing that it should be lives with without making out the mother is nuts and a control freak  Smile
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#20
I have a "lives with". She makes all the decisions and informs me if her decisions after the fact. I will soon see daughter every other weekend and on half holidays only.

On its own, basically it is a lip service to the idea of shared care without any substance. It is an insult to people's intelligence.

By giving the "live with" order without substance behind it what the judge conveys is that she thinks that mother is so dumb to not recognise she is still in control or the father can be fooled/pleased by a meaningless couple of words or both.
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