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Can my partner's ex dictate when contact takes place
#1
Long story short.  My partner, whose relationship ended with his ex over 8 years ago, is now applying to the court for a contact order for his 10 year-old son.

They were not married, nor did they co-habit but were in a relationship when their son was born.  For the last 8 years, my partner has had and informal agreement for staying contact on Fri and Sat nights, with extra during holidays.  This fitted in with his working life, even though his older sons had to watch his youngest because he worked on Saturdays.

Over the last 2 years, my partner's circumstances have changed.  He now works in a different job and we started our relationship in Feb 2017.  He moved out of his home, leaving his older children to take over the lease and we now live together.  His ex is a loony and an emotional terrorist.  She is bitter, resentful and abusive, despite the fact that she has had other relationships since their's ended.  

I am the first relationship my partner has been in since their break up as he had been treated badly for three relationships on the bounce and his confidence was on the floor so he shied away from any prospect of a relationship.  We were friends for a couple of years and eventually he has learnt to trust someone again.

Anyway, since he changed his job and moved in with me, he works a rolling shift of 5 days on and 3 days off.  Changing jobs wasn't a deliberate move.  Circumstances dictated that he needed to get a new job.   This absolutely incensed her.  She was used to having her Fri and Sat nights and all weekend free from Fri tea time until Sunday tea time.  She bitched and whined for a couple of months, demanding my partner get a different job and a revert to weekends.  He has no intention of doing that.

Their son is happy to come and stay whether on school nights or weekends, and likes it when his dad picks him up from school and takes him to school.  He's just happy to be with his dad and to spend time without his half brothers and sisters.

Last month, my partner had a conversation with his son concerning his half brother whom his son thought was his full brother and also told him about a half sister he was not aware of (his ex emotionally blackmailed him into not having a relationship with his daughter or she would end their relationship.  He was an emotional mess at the time for various reasons and so gave in to her damands and had no contact with his daughter).  Ironically, she trapped him with their son two years later.

Anyway, as their son brought up the subject, my partner took the opportunity to speak to him about it and explain about his half siblings.  Evidently he told his mum and she went ape shit and stopped contact.  

My partner went to mediation but she refused so we sent off the C100 to court.  She believes the court will make my partner give up his well paid job (he pays her according to the CMS site calculator) with prospects, to get one that leaves Friday and Saturday nights free.  I believe she is delusional. She wants her social life catering to but that's not my partner's problem.  

We are approaching the case from all of the right perspective and I have done a lot of research so everything about my partners application is and will be on seeking the court's support for his son to maintain a sustainable relationship with his dad.  She has stopped contact several times over the years but always given in after a few weeks.

She popped back up again a couple of weeks ago, on the run up to a holiday she was taking her children on.  She sent a message telling my partner she would 'give him one last chance but if he did anything else she didn't like she would stop contact again'. He declined and said he would rather have the court's support than keep on having contact stopped.  She stated she would only agree to weekends unless she had 'safeguarding' issues, which is ironic, she's a mess. Then came a request for extra money for the holiday.  

My partner has thought back over every time she has stopped contact then relented and every time she has followed it up asking for money.  He even 'loaned' her the money for a car once even though he knew she'd never repay it.

Anyway, I just wondered if anyone has any experience with their partner trying to dictate when contact takes place on flimsy claims of it's not a 'routine' to follow a rolling shift, when it is exactly that as you can plan ahead for months, years even.  She's claiming her social worker and the school head teacher are telling her she is able to dictate.

Many thank.
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#2
It's all twaddle - she's just trying it on, wants her own way. He must be very worried about how his son is coping. It's a bit like gaslighting - they tell you so much rubbish you start wondering if it's true.
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#3
(04-07-2018, 06:33 PM)Hunky Dory Wrote: Long story short.  My partner, whose relationship ended with his ex over 8 years ago, is now applying to the court for a contact order for his 10 year-old son.

They were not married, nor did they co-habit but were in a relationship when their son was born.  For the last 8 years, my partner has had and informal agreement for staying contact on Fri and Sat nights, with extra during holidays.  This fitted in with his working life, even though his older sons had to watch his youngest because he worked on Saturdays.

Over the last 2 years, my partner's circumstances have changed.  He now works in a different job and we started our relationship in Feb 2017.  He moved out of his home, leaving his older children to take over the lease and we now live together.  His ex is a loony and an emotional terrorist.  She is bitter, resentful and abusive, despite the fact that she has had other relationships since their's ended.  

I am the first relationship my partner has been in since their break up as he had been treated badly for three relationships on the bounce and his confidence was on the floor so he shied away from any prospect of a relationship.  We were friends for a couple of years and eventually he has learnt to trust someone again.

Anyway, since he changed his job and moved in with me, he works a rolling shift of 5 days on and 3 days off.  Changing jobs wasn't a deliberate move.  Circumstances dictated that he needed to get a new job.   This absolutely incensed her.  She was used to having her Fri and Sat nights and all weekend free from Fri tea time until Sunday tea time.  She bitched and whined for a couple of months, demanding my partner get a different job and a revert to weekends.  He has no intention of doing that.

Their son is happy to come and stay whether on school nights or weekends, and likes it when his dad picks him up from school and takes him to school.  He's just happy to be with his dad and to spend time without his half brothers and sisters.

Last month, my partner had a conversation with his son concerning his half brother whom his son thought was his full brother and also told him about a half sister he was not aware of (his ex emotionally blackmailed him into not having a relationship with his daughter or she would end their relationship.  He was an emotional mess at the time for various reasons and so gave in to her damands and had no contact with his daughter).  Ironically, she trapped him with their son two years later.

Anyway, as their son brought up the subject, my partner took the opportunity to speak to him about it and explain about his half siblings.  Evidently he told his mum and she went ape shit and stopped contact.  

My partner went to mediation but she refused so we sent off the C100 to court.  She believes the court will make my partner give up his well paid job (he pays her according to the CMS site calculator) with prospects, to get one that leaves Friday and Saturday nights free.  I believe she is delusional. She wants her social life catering to but that's not my partner's problem.  

We are approaching the case from all of the right perspective and I have done a lot of research so everything about my partners application is and will be on seeking the court's support for his son to maintain a sustainable relationship with his dad.  She has stopped contact several times over the years but always given in after a few weeks.

She popped back up again a couple of weeks ago, on the run up to a holiday she was taking her children on.  She sent a message telling my partner she would 'give him one last chance but if he did anything else she didn't like she would stop contact again'. He declined and said he would rather have the court's support than keep on having contact stopped.  She stated she would only agree to weekends unless she had 'safeguarding' issues, which is ironic, she's a mess. Then came a request for extra money for the holiday.  

My partner has thought back over every time she has stopped contact then relented and every time she has followed it up asking for money.  He even 'loaned' her the money for a car once even though he knew she'd never repay it.

Anyway, I just wondered if anyone has any experience with their partner trying to dictate when contact takes place on flimsy claims of it's not a 'routine' to follow a rolling shift, when it is exactly that as you can plan ahead for months, years even.  She's claiming her social worker and the school head teacher are telling her she is able to dictate.

Many thank.

The bad news for his ex is that a Court will only Order contact at times he asks for. What she wants does not come into it.

As the Resident Parnet, it is up to her arrange any childcare outside of his Contact time, and if she get Working Tax Credit, she will get 70% paid if she uses a Registered Child Minder or Ofstead Aproved provider.

While a normal starting point is every other weekend and half school holidays, in this situation the rolling rota would match the number of weeks his work timetable is over.  In this cases, its 7 weeks.  My suggestion is (Based on week 1 being the week he does Monday to Friday

w1, Friday PM till Sunday PM or Monday AM
w3, Sunday if its suits his ex, or Monday from school  return to school Tuesday. 
w5, Tuesday from school, return to school Thursday.
w7, Friday PM till Sunday PM.

The above will average 1 night per week in term time.  School holidays he can get up to half, but my suggestion would be

3 x 1 week half terms, as per normal rota, but should she want to take the child on holiday he should agree to it, and perhaps ask for the time to be replaced at a time that suits him.

Easter and Christmas, 1 week but also note that Significant Days would be shared, or turns each. (who the child lives with has no bearing in law on this).

Summer, I would suggest he takes 2 weeks off work, and has that as a block, so that you can go on holiday if you want. Its worth asking the Court for consent for him to take the child out of the UK for Holidays, as under the law, you need this, or everyone with PR for the child to agree.

You need to give his ex a 2 week block also to be fair, and then contact as per the normal rota.

The order needs to say, that while the school holdiay arrnagments change, the rota stays running week by week, so its always inline with his work.

If he was using childcare in his contat time, she could ask for that time back. It sounds to me as if she likes having a weekend babysitter, but that is a seperate thing that contact, what is Quality Time when it suits him. There is nothing wrong with yourself or anyone else in his family offering to help her out with childcare, but that must be a direct arrangement between the adult and her.
Posts made by me are my opinion and any factual information should be checked out. If you do not have a Solicitor, often your local CAB can get you some initial advice.
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#4
(04-07-2018, 09:34 PM)Charlie7000 Wrote: It's all twaddle - she's just trying it on, wants her own way.  He must be very worried about how his son is coping.  It's a bit like gaslighting - they tell you so much rubbish you start wondering if it's true.

That's what I thought, Charlie7000.  As for gaslighting, she's been doing that for years with him.  Basically had him (and his wallet) on call for 8 years.  Needless to say, she hates my guts, even though we have never met, nor spoken, because all of that is coming to an end.  I have abusive messages to show the court if it gets that ropey.  We are aiming to keep it all about his son and not address any crap she hasn't provided proof for.

Thank you.

(04-08-2018, 08:52 AM)MarkR Wrote:
(04-07-2018, 06:33 PM)Hunky Dory Wrote: Long story short.  My partner, whose relationship ended with his ex over 8 years ago, is now applying to the court for a contact order for his 10 year-old son.

They were not married, nor did they co-habit but were in a relationship when their son was born.  For the last 8 years, my partner has had and informal agreement for staying contact on Fri and Sat nights, with extra during holidays.  This fitted in with his working life, even though his older sons had to watch his youngest because he worked on Saturdays.

Over the last 2 years, my partner's circumstances have changed.  He now works in a different job and we started our relationship in Feb 2017.  He moved out of his home, leaving his older children to take over the lease and we now live together.  His ex is a loony and an emotional terrorist.  She is bitter, resentful and abusive, despite the fact that she has had other relationships since their's ended.  

I am the first relationship my partner has been in since their break up as he had been treated badly for three relationships on the bounce and his confidence was on the floor so he shied away from any prospect of a relationship.  We were friends for a couple of years and eventually he has learnt to trust someone again.

Anyway, since he changed his job and moved in with me, he works a rolling shift of 5 days on and 3 days off.  Changing jobs wasn't a deliberate move.  Circumstances dictated that he needed to get a new job.   This absolutely incensed her.  She was used to having her Fri and Sat nights and all weekend free from Fri tea time until Sunday tea time.  She bitched and whined for a couple of months, demanding my partner get a different job and a revert to weekends.  He has no intention of doing that.

Their son is happy to come and stay whether on school nights or weekends, and likes it when his dad picks him up from school and takes him to school.  He's just happy to be with his dad and to spend time without his half brothers and sisters.

Last month, my partner had a conversation with his son concerning his half brother whom his son thought was his full brother and also told him about a half sister he was not aware of (his ex emotionally blackmailed him into not having a relationship with his daughter or she would end their relationship.  He was an emotional mess at the time for various reasons and so gave in to her damands and had no contact with his daughter).  Ironically, she trapped him with their son two years later.

Anyway, as their son brought up the subject, my partner took the opportunity to speak to him about it and explain about his half siblings.  Evidently he told his mum and she went ape shit and stopped contact.  

My partner went to mediation but she refused so we sent off the C100 to court.  She believes the court will make my partner give up his well paid job (he pays her according to the CMS site calculator) with prospects, to get one that leaves Friday and Saturday nights free.  I believe she is delusional. She wants her social life catering to but that's not my partner's problem.  

We are approaching the case from all of the right perspective and I have done a lot of research so everything about my partners application is and will be on seeking the court's support for his son to maintain a sustainable relationship with his dad.  She has stopped contact several times over the years but always given in after a few weeks.

She popped back up again a couple of weeks ago, on the run up to a holiday she was taking her children on.  She sent a message telling my partner she would 'give him one last chance but if he did anything else she didn't like she would stop contact again'. He declined and said he would rather have the court's support than keep on having contact stopped.  She stated she would only agree to weekends unless she had 'safeguarding' issues, which is ironic, she's a mess. Then came a request for extra money for the holiday.  

My partner has thought back over every time she has stopped contact then relented and every time she has followed it up asking for money.  He even 'loaned' her the money for a car once even though he knew she'd never repay it.

Anyway, I just wondered if anyone has any experience with their partner trying to dictate when contact takes place on flimsy claims of it's not a 'routine' to follow a rolling shift, when it is exactly that as you can plan ahead for months, years even.  She's claiming her social worker and the school head teacher are telling her she is able to dictate.

Many thank.

The bad news for his ex is that a Court will only Order contact at times he asks for. What she wants does not come into it.

As the Resident Parnet, it is up to her arrange any childcare outside of his Contact time, and if she get Working Tax Credit, she will get 70% paid if she uses a Registered Child Minder or Ofstead Aproved provider.

While a normal starting point is every other weekend and half school holidays, in this situation the rolling rota would match the number of weeks his work timetable is over.  In this cases, its 7 weeks.  My suggestion is (Based on week 1 being the week he does Monday to Friday

w1, Friday PM till Sunday PM or Monday AM
w3, Sunday if its suits his ex, or Monday from school  return to school Tuesday. 
w5, Tuesday from school, return to school Thursday.
w7, Friday PM till Sunday PM.

The above will average 1 night per week in term time.  School holidays he can get up to half, but my suggestion would be

3 x 1 week half terms, as per normal rota, but should she want to take the child on holiday he should agree to it, and perhaps ask for the time to be replaced at a time that suits him.

Easter and Christmas, 1 week but also note that Significant Days would be shared, or turns each. (who the child lives with has no bearing in law on this).

Summer, I would suggest he takes 2 weeks off work, and has that as a block, so that you can go on holiday if you want. Its worth asking the Court for consent for him to take the child out of the UK for Holidays, as under the law, you need this, or everyone with PR for the child to agree.

You need to give his ex a 2 week block also to be fair, and then contact as per the normal rota.

The order needs to say, that while the school holdiay arrnagments change, the rota stays running week by week, so its always inline with his work.

If he was using childcare in his contat time, she could ask for that time back. It sounds to me as if she likes having a weekend babysitter, but that is a seperate thing that contact, what is Quality Time when it suits him. There is nothing wrong with yourself or anyone else in his family offering to help her out with childcare, but that must be a direct arrangement between the adult and her.

Exactly, MarkR.  Babysitting.  She has had her children taken from her in the past by social services and they all went to live with my partner and his older children for six months.  One of her daughters contacted social services saying there were men in the house, drinking and drug taking.  She puts herself about and it obviously frustrated she can have the the youngest of the house at weekends like she has become used to.  She can't go back to her old ways or social services will be back on her case.

We have done as you suggest and asked for staying contact in line with his shift pattern and additional time in holidays.  

She's very indulged by her social worker whom I think is sick of her so just humours her.  She's the kind that will lose the plot in the hearing.  Very volatile and combative.  I know any judge won't countenance that.  Her problem will be is she won't be able to give a valid reason for what she wants.  She thinks she can force a situation whereby their son only comes to stay when his dad has a weekend off - every seven weeks.

Thank you.
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