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On the benefits of total separation from our ex partners
#21
Obviously it is your decision as to what to do and find a way forward so you have to do ultimately what you feel comfortable with. It certainly sounds like you have done your homework and know your kids will be fine. I did exactly the same as you as i wanted to know everything so i could feel comfortable kids would be fine.

Is your ex actively looking for somewhere to move into or is she just playing the game and trying to string you on as long as possible as lets be honest the longer she lives in the same house as you she is free to come and go as she pleases knowing that she has a "baby sitter" on tap. It funny that once the dust settles and the kids live with her then the whole "new life" isn't quite as appealing as it once was.

It is worth remaining as friendly as possible until you get what you want as it is always easier dealing with someone who thinks they are "winning".
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#22
I think you're spot on with this, danwel.  My mum actually used exactly the some words... "Let her think that she's winning".  On the morning after her affair dumped her, we started having a row. Then I stopped and I actually visualised putting my feelings about our relationship and the affair in a box and putting it on a shelf.  I knew I couldn't deal with it at that time and that working on the practicalities was the only way I could cope.  So I asked her what she wanted... did she want to stay in our house?  Then I sat down with her and went through all the bills and the mortgage to show her what it would cost. I said I'd talk to our financial adviser to see what was possible.  I did however insist that she could not lock me into paying a mortgage on a house that I don't want, thereby preventing me getting a mortgage on a new house of my own.

From that moment on, she was on-side.  She's since taken her own advice and seems to accept that we can't actually keep the house if we both want to move on and provide a good life for the kids.  It'd be better to sell it, take our 50/50 share of the equity and start again.  She has registered with a number of letting agents (only yesterday) so she does seem to be taking action. It's actually quite painful to see her do it because it suggests she's serious about the split.

I gave her a spreadsheet this morning showing 2 examples of how we could split the childcare 50/50 and another for 3 nights with me, 4 with her.  She isn't getting the kids all week.  She'll need time to work and have a life. I think she knows this, having seen at least a couple of her friends struggle almost entirely on their own.  I wonder whether she thinks she can get away with having them all the time but just asking me to have them when it suits her.  I obviously won't agree to that.  And it'll probably piss her off that I've been so organised and written all this up because she'll think I'm trying to push her out, but this is entirely her doing.  She wanted to break up. She wanted to sleep with other people.

It's tough.  When we aren't talking a lot, I feel anxious and feel desperate to get out and move on, but I feel emotionally tough.  When we're talking and relaxed, the anxiety dissipates but then I feel emotionally weak.  For example, I came in last night. I'd had a couple of drinks.  She'd drunk a bit more with a friend at home.  We actually had a laugh together, both being playful,  and just for a second I thought something might happen.  (Silly.  I should stay sober)  She sleeps downstairs now. I'm on the top floor (of three). She texted me a goodnight message, which she wouldn't normally do.  It left me wondering whether all of her recent positivity, effort and exercise is actually for my sake, to try and win me back.  What a head fk!  I think my counsellor will tell me that these are the traps I need to avoid.  As far as I'm concerned we have split up and I'm single.  I'll get my own place and my own life, hopefully very soon.  She dumped me. She was sleeping with another man and manipulating me to keep me on side.  But when she turns on the charm, she keeps me hooked.  It's her thing.  It's only been 11 weeks and I still love her, even if I hate her as well. I can't remove her from my life entirely, and we're stuck together until she gets a place.  And I don't want the kids to see conflict.  How do I cope?
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#23
There is a lot to be said for being emotionally intelligent and something that i worked hard on during and after our split and luckily it is also a concept i do at to with at work so being aware of my feelings enabled me to remain on the surface calm and happy and able to talk normally (that would annoy her as she wants a reaction and to see me lose it) while inside absolutely raging and wanting to throat punch her.

I didn't have to go through what you went through of living in the same house so i can't imagine how difficult that is and you will have those moments where you begin to wonder if a reconciliation is on the cards.

Far me it for me to tell you what to do BUT you need to be honest with yourself and if a reconciliation is what you want then maybe you need to branch that subject. However having gone through the whole affair thing i could never trust that person again nor would i want to put my kids through the situation where the relationship is basically a ticking time bomb.

Please don't forget that there are millions of other women out there waiting to meet you so don't be afraid to see what it is like. The best way to get over someone is to get under someone is the advice i got. On the plus side it once you start interacting with women it is an ego boost to know that the opposite sex find you attractive and want to talk to you and spend time with you.

Try and get out of the house where you can and spend time with other adults as it will be good for you plus it has the added bonus of your ex wondering where you are and what and who you are up to. You are entitled now to do what you want and who you want without answering to her. Let her see that you are not crying into your cornflakes.
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#24
Hi Fatcat

You posted: "What a head fk! I think my counsellor will tell me that these are the traps I need to avoid."

Yes - it is a HF. Nothing like it. I am little cautious about counsellors: my impression is there is a huge industry built around facilitating even encouraging divorce and they're part of it. At the risk of sounding a real drip maybe listen to your heart not a counsellor. There's something that happened in my life many years ago that reading your account makes me think it's possible neither of you actually want to divorce. There's a kind of good feeling false high that happens that is possibly actually shock. It's possible right now neither really knows what you want to do. A decision either way at this time might be completely unreliable. It might be an idea to 'do' as little as possible.

PS. Getting back to the subject of the thread I have been clearing away stuff of hers and coincident with that it's possible I have reached a point of actually letting go. That's after 10 months. I don't want to speak too soon because I am wary of those false highs I mentioned but it's possible. I feel like I might be ready to move on. So if I mention the possibility of reconciliation or at least not doing anything to make it worse I don't think I am projecting my own hopes and seeing things through rose-coloured glasses. There's something about your story that makes me suspect right now your wife couldn't decide if she wants tea or coffee let alone a whole new life.
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#25
(08-15-2018, 10:05 AM)Jim Wrote: Hi Fatcat

You posted: "What a head fk!  I think my counsellor will tell me that these are the traps I need to avoid."

Yes - it is a HF. Nothing like it. I am little cautious about counsellors: my impression is there is a huge industry built around facilitating even encouraging divorce and they're part of it. At the risk of sounding a real drip maybe listen to your heart not a counsellor. There's something that happened in my life many years ago that reading your account makes me think it's possible neither of you actually want to divorce. There's a kind of good feeling false high that happens that is possibly actually shock. It's possible right now neither really knows what you want to do. A decision either way at this time might be completely unreliable. It might be an idea to 'do' as little as possible.

The good news is that we aren't divorcing because we aren't married.  But if I'm honest, there have not really been any genuine signs since this started that she wants to come back, but plenty that she wants to leave me behind.  She seems keen to move on now.  She is contacting letting agents and working out how to survive independently.  I've made it clear many times that the door is still open, but she's always rejected it.  I will ask her again before she rents a place, or we sell the house, whether it's really what she wants.  I don't know what else I can do, and I don't know if I can forgive her anyway.  Every time I soften and start talking to her about reconciliation, I get hurt again.  My counsellor's job is to make sure I get through this as undamaged as possible.  She said that if I want to pursue reconciliation then she'll help me with this, but I have to decide which path I want and at the moment it's all been about separating, and that's what she's helping me with currently. So I understand why she says what she does.

My ex has repeatedly said she didn't have the "connection" with me that she yearns for.  Our sex life was rubbish for years and she never seemed into me in that way.  It's very very tough.  Do I keep chasing her and potentially buy into more and more pain, or perhaps a few months with her before it all goes wrong again?  Or do I cut my losses, get on with life and all the positivity I know awaits, never fully knowing whether it could've been saved?
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#26
"Every time I soften and start talking to her about reconciliation ...."

This could be a big mistake. Have you done any online research into doing a 180 sometimes called last resort technique. The basic premise is you'll get further giving the impression you don't give a monkeys than talking about reconciliation. If she says she wants out tell her it's a good idea and she's right. It sounds counter-intuitive but a lot of people think it works better than looking needy.
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#27
i have my exes number muted in my phone and shows up as horrible cunt.
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#28
(08-15-2018, 10:26 AM)Jim Wrote: "Every time I soften and start talking to her about reconciliation ...."

This could be a big mistake. Have you done any online research into doing a 180 sometimes called last resort technique. The basic premise is you'll get further giving the impression you don't give a monkeys than talking about reconciliation. If she says she wants out tell her it's a good idea and she's right. It sounds counter-intuitive but a lot of people think it works better than looking needy.

Yes.  And I agree with it.  This isn't something that happens a lot.  I could've explained it better.  I have asked her two or three times while we're talking about practicalities whether she's sure it's what she wants to do. I've asked if her friends have asked her if she knows what she's doing (they all think she's mad but most don't know about the affair).  After the affair ended and she spent a couple of days showing some kind of remorse, I asked her if she wanted us to think about things for a few weeks, for the sake of us and the kids.  She seemed keen but a few days later said she wanted to move on and have a break (yes, a bit of a contradiction).  Since then, I haven't said anything about getting back together.  That was a fortnight ago.  Prior to uncovering the affair (4 weeks ago) I wasn't bugging her about it at all. I'd done the 180 already.

I just wondered whether she's now doing her own 180 for my sake.  But there's no actual evidence.  Everything she's doing to move on, I'm supporting her in and agreeing with. I'm getting the house valued at the weekend.  Unless she can turn around and expressly tell me that she wants us to reconcile, how can I pursue reconciliation without screwing my head up?  But she's petulant and it wouldn't be unlike her to play a game like this.  Basically, if I don't show and interest, her mantra would be "sod you then".  She could never do the grown-up thing and talk to me like an adult.  But it's a guess... an assumption.  Not fact.  The facts are that she dumped me, she was seeing someone who she'd probably be seeing now if he hadn't dumped her, she hasn't given me any encouragement at all to try and fix us and she's making all the right steps to move on and move out.

In view of the fact that we aren't divorcing, the worst thing here is that we're selling the family home (although that might not happen if I buy her out).  It could be that after some time apart, if no damage has been done, we might come back together.  Who knows?  But hanging on for her isn't going to be good for me.  I love my kids and am planning great things with them.  I need to focus on that and being myself for a bit, don't you think?
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#29
(08-15-2018, 10:05 AM)Jim Wrote: PS. Getting back to the subject of the thread I have been clearing away stuff of hers and coincident with that it's possible I have reached a point of actually letting go. That's after 10 months. I don't want to speak too soon because I am wary of those false highs I mentioned but it's possible. I feel like I might be ready to move on. So if I mention the possibility of reconciliation or at least not doing anything to make it worse I don't think I am projecting my own hopes and seeing things through rose-coloured glasses. There's something about your story that makes me suspect right now your wife couldn't decide if she wants tea or coffee let alone a whole new life.

Indeed getting back to the subject (not that anyone has said anything not both interesting and useful). We need to be our own, independent people. Our own independent men if I my briefly flirt with the language used by those mens rights idiots.

Being fully functioning, independent men who can take life on either on our own, or in partnership with others, always knowing that we could become fully independent again at the drop of a hat.

This means having everything that is important to us, financially, emotionally, practically, to be fully separate and independent of those who have left us in some way.

The emotional attachment, physical belongings and reminders of our past have no place in that life. No marriage photos, no mementos of better times now passed. Our own bank accounts. Our own keys.

I updated the initial post with nuggets of wisdom I've taken from peoples replies. I hope it's a useful guide for people and can help them find their own way to true independence, able to let people pass by if needed without desperately clutching out for them.
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#30
(08-15-2018, 08:36 AM)danwel Wrote: There is a lot to be said for being emotionally intelligent and something that i worked hard on during and after our split and luckily it is also a concept i do at to with at work so being aware of my feelings enabled me to remain on the surface calm and happy and able to talk normally (that would annoy her as she wants a reaction and to see me lose it) while inside absolutely raging and wanting to throat punch her.

I didn't have to go through what you went through of living in the same house so i can't imagine how difficult that is and you will have those moments where you begin to wonder if a reconciliation is on the cards.

Far me it for me to tell you what to do BUT you need to be honest with yourself and if a reconciliation is what you want then maybe you need to branch that subject. However having gone through the whole affair thing i could never trust that person again nor would i want to put my kids through the situation where the relationship is basically a ticking time bomb.

Please don't forget that there are millions of other women out there waiting to meet you so don't be afraid to see what it is like. The best way to get over someone is to get under someone is the advice i got. On the plus side it once you start interacting with women it is an ego boost to know that the opposite sex find you attractive and want to talk to you and spend time with you.

Try and get out of the house where you can and spend time with other adults as it will be good for you plus it has the added bonus of your ex wondering where you are and what and who you are up to. You are entitled now to do what you want and who you want without answering to her. Let her see that you are not crying into your cornflakes.

I think what you say above is great advice.  But as you can see from my posts to Jim, my mind just isn't fully polarised on the matter and may never be.  While I'm living with her, any friendly moments are easily misconstrued as being more than they are.  Last night, she was drunk and possibly stoned.  I seem to remember she was unsteady, in fact.  It'd be foolish to read too much into what happened.  

I guess I want her to want me.  But if she really did, I don't know if I could take her back anyway.  I'm still seriously attracted to her and my feelings for her are still there, but she's proven herself to be an idiot. I don't know about trust.  I could only consider taking her back if she convinced me of her loyalty and commitment.  Like you say, a ticking bomb.  I sometimes thought that anyway. I often wondered if I'd lose her as soon as the kids left home.

Fortunately, I get out loads already.  My friends have been amazing.  I go to the gym most days. I'm still cycling as well and planning trips to Sweden and snowboarding in the winter.  I'll try to take the kids camping later this month and possibly on holiday at half term.  I don't let her see my grief. I don't talk to her about the affair or "us".  I have a date on Friday night, even if it does seem a bit early.  I'm both excited and nervous about the future, but I never shy away from a challenge and have stood on my own two feet since I was 21.

p.s. Yes, sorry if I've gone off topic. I didn't mean to hijack the thread.
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