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Salary sacrifice
#1
For those that have been stung by CMS and are being asked to pay a monthly amount that is in excess of what the other parent needs and what you've previously paid under the CSA regime (due to her greed / milking of the system / using you as a cash cow... whatever caption you wish to add), you can offset some of your GROSS salary (which is LEGAL!!) from your employer with the following:

- Up to £40,000 pension contribution into your pension (I'm not able to do this as I don't earn that much!)
- Purchasing extra holiday
- Annual health check
- Buy As You Earn shares
- Cycle to work schemes.

I've had to resort to this purely because she was not "willing" to do a Family Based Arrangement as she saw what she could get under CMS (despite me NEVER missing a payment in nine years under the CSA - I've been transferred over to CMS this month) and wants to earn as much as she can, which is pretty much leaving me on the bread line.

Yes, I've done the calculation and the requirement to pay £500 odd a month is correct. This does not factor in what debts I have to cover for my own personal liabilities and living arrangements before I am able to put food in my mouth.

I still can't get my head around the fact the CMS look at your gross income and calculate it based on an amount you haven't even been taxed on then expect you to pay out before anything else has been deducted.

Anyone else with any other salary sacrifices please mention below.
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#2
(08-30-2016, 10:56 AM)Stan the man Wrote: For those that have been stung by CMS and are being asked to pay a monthly amount that is in excess of what the other parent needs and what you've previously paid under the CSA regime (due to her greed / milking of the system / using you as a cash cow... whatever caption you wish to add), you can offset some of your GROSS salary (which is LEGAL!!) from your employer with the following:

- Up to £40,000 pension contribution into your pension (I'm not able to do this as I don't earn that much!)
- Purchasing extra holiday
- Annual health check
- Buy As You Earn shares
- Cycle to work schemes.

I've had to resort to this purely because she was not "willing" to do a Family Based Arrangement as she saw what she could get under CMS (despite me NEVER missing a payment in nine years under the CSA - I've been transferred over to CMS this month) and wants to earn as much as she can, which is pretty much leaving me on the bread line.

Yes, I've done the calculation and the requirement to pay £500 odd a month is correct. This does not factor in what debts I have to cover for my own personal liabilities and living arrangements before I am able to put food in my mouth.

I still can't get my head around the fact the CMS look at your gross income and calculate it based on an amount you haven't even been taxed on then expect you to pay out before anything else has been deducted.

Anyone else with any other salary sacrifices please mention below.

I am not for people trying to hide income to lower suppport, and there is an issue with this post.

Buy as you earn shares is a benefit in kind, what attracks a value when doing a Self Assesment if buying below market price.

Any dividend from shares is income for tax, and also Child Support Calculations in a CMS case.
Posts made by me are my opinion and any factual information should be checked out. If you do not have a Solicitor, often your local CAB can get you some initial advice.
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#3
(08-30-2016, 05:08 PM)MarkR Wrote:
(08-30-2016, 10:56 AM)Stan the man Wrote: For those that have been stung by CMS and are being asked to pay a monthly amount that is in excess of what the other parent needs and what you've previously paid under the CSA regime (due to her greed / milking of the system / using you as a cash cow... whatever caption you wish to add), you can offset some of your GROSS salary (which is LEGAL!!) from your employer with the following:

- Up to £40,000 pension contribution into your pension (I'm not able to do this as I don't earn that much!)
- Purchasing extra holiday
- Annual health check
- Buy As You Earn shares
- Cycle to work schemes.

I've had to resort to this purely because she was not "willing" to do a Family Based Arrangement as she saw what she could get under CMS (despite me NEVER missing a payment in nine years under the CSA - I've been transferred over to CMS this month) and wants to earn as much as she can, which is pretty much leaving me on the bread line.

Yes, I've done the calculation and the requirement to pay £500 odd a month is correct. This does not factor in what debts I have to cover for my own personal liabilities and living arrangements before I am able to put food in my mouth.

I still can't get my head around the fact the CMS look at your gross income and calculate it based on an amount you haven't even been taxed on then expect you to pay out before anything else has been deducted.

Anyone else with any other salary sacrifices please mention below.

I am not for people trying to hide income to lower suppport, and there is an issue with this post.

Buy as you earn shares is a benefit in kind, what attracks a value when doing a Self Assesment if buying below market price.

Any dividend from shares is income for tax, and also Child Support Calculations in a CMS case.

Please don't think I'm trying to shirk my responsibilities here, as I'm not. However, I feel that what I've been asked to pay by the CMS is excessive in relation to what she has previously been paid and what other benefits she gets that "tops" up her lifestyle, which is far better off than I'm currently living!
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#4
(08-31-2016, 10:34 AM)Stan the man Wrote: Please don't think I'm trying to shirk my responsibilities here, as I'm not. However, I feel that what I've been asked to pay by the CMS is excessive in relation to what she has previously been paid and what other benefits she gets that "tops" up her lifestyle, which is far better off than I'm currently living!

I believe I can empathise with the point you’re trying to make.
 
Pre rant warning, I’m getting it off my chest in one go so spelling and grammar might not be the best, sorry:
 
It is my belief fathers should pay for their children, and I appreciate that everyone’s situation is very different which adds complexity to each case. However that being said we are in a time where inequality is still very biased against the male in this situation.
 
The government will want you to feel that they promote family life and children having equal and fair access to both parents, however the reality for the majority of Dads is that they begin from a negative position and struggle to recover. This happens because us fathers fall on the relationship sword and leave the family home as that is what society tends expects us to do, it doesn’t matter how integral we are to the children’s life, or how much of a role we take in their home life away from the traditional roles society has set up, we are still stuck in a time that sees the men as the bread winners and the women as the home makers and that means by default we have to leave and feel the pressure to do so.
 
So what now? Rent prices are extortionate across the country, you have more chance of growing a money tree from your rear end then getting social housing, and buying a home?.... well that really is just for the lucky few these days, so fathers tend to have to sofa surf or move in with a relation not leaving any adequate space for the children to visit.
 
So here we are homeless or paying inflated rent prices for a small studio wardrobe of a room struggling finically partly due to the monthly CMS payment that leaves our finances even more vulnerable because it’s calculated on nights spent over rather than actual contact time, and due to the costs of rent and a high CMS having a stable place your children can stay overnight becomes an almost impossible dream. The situation is like the snake eating its own tail.
 
 
So what do I consider the answer? In short as I am sure you’re bored of reading my gripes:
 
  • CMS needs to address the issue of overnight stay, it’s nonsense that a father can have their child all day but just because they are return to the mothers house at night that day and all the cost associated don’t count.
 
  • Global benefits need to look at the mother’s situation in full. For example if she is a social home tenant who is getting great benefits because she is a “single mum”, a nice whack of CMS, and is living with a new partner who earns a full time wage then I can guarantee you from personal experience they will be living quite well. The new partner should not be liable for the children but their wage should be taken into account towards “general costs towards continued rent” and a reduction in benefits applied. This reduction could then be used to help struggling fathers who can prove that their CMS payments and rent contributions are leaving them on a breadline or as it often is beneath the breadline with days of non-eating simply to stay in the property. Many families who aren’t separated get excluded from benefits due to a joint claim so it seems unfair that single mums can still exploit the system by moving in new partners and not declaring them.  
 
  • Local authorities although under huge housing priority problems should award fathers with access that exceeds 100nights a year a percentage of points for a home that can accommodate. It won’t mean single fathers getting all the homes as it’s only some points, but it will at least help keep us in the mix rather than being completely written off.  
 
  • Lastly if like me you are lucky to find a new partner who you love and start a new journey with, when making honest upfront joint claims CMS payments should be excluded from the calculations, to say a payment that you obligated to pay is not excluded makes a mockery of the system as we do not have that money to spend so to include it only serves to provide a wrong figure to calculate from.
 
Moan over.
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#5
(08-31-2016, 12:54 PM)jgchambers Wrote:
(08-31-2016, 10:34 AM)Stan the man Wrote: Please don't think I'm trying to shirk my responsibilities here, as I'm not. However, I feel that what I've been asked to pay by the CMS is excessive in relation to what she has previously been paid and what other benefits she gets that "tops" up her lifestyle, which is far better off than I'm currently living!

I believe I can empathise with the point you’re trying to make.
 
Pre rant warning, I’m getting it off my chest in one go so spelling and grammar might not be the best, sorry:
 
It is my belief fathers should pay for their children, and I appreciate that everyone’s situation is very different which adds complexity to each case. However that being said we are in a time where inequality is still very biased against the male in this situation.
 
The government will want you to feel that they promote family life and children having equal and fair access to both parents, however the reality for the majority of Dads is that they begin from a negative position and struggle to recover. This happens because us fathers fall on the relationship sword and leave the family home as that is what society tends expects us to do, it doesn’t matter how integral we are to the children’s life, or how much of a role we take in their home life away from the traditional roles society has set up, we are still stuck in a time that sees the men as the bread winners and the women as the home makers and that means by default we have to leave and feel the pressure to do so.
 
So what now? Rent prices are extortionate across the country, you have more chance of growing a money tree from your rear end then getting social housing, and buying a home?.... well that really is just for the lucky few these days, so fathers tend to have to sofa surf or move in with a relation not leaving any adequate space for the children to visit.
 
So here we are homeless or paying inflated rent prices for a small studio wardrobe of a room struggling finically partly due to the monthly CMS payment that leaves our finances even more vulnerable because it’s calculated on nights spent over rather than actual contact time, and due to the costs of rent and a high CMS having a stable place your children can stay overnight becomes an almost impossible dream. The situation is like the snake eating its own tail.
 
 
So what do I consider the answer? In short as I am sure you’re bored of reading my gripes:
 
  • CMS needs to address the issue of overnight stay, it’s nonsense that a father can have their child all day but just because they are return to the mothers house at night that day and all the cost associated don’t count.
 
  • Global benefits need to look at the mother’s situation in full. For example if she is a social home tenant who is getting great benefits because she is a “single mum”, a nice whack of CMS, and is living with a new partner who earns a full time wage then I can guarantee you from personal experience they will be living quite well. The new partner should not be liable for the children but their wage should be taken into account towards “general costs towards continued rent” and a reduction in benefits applied. This reduction could then be used to help struggling fathers who can prove that their CMS payments and rent contributions are leaving them on a breadline or as it often is beneath the breadline with days of non-eating simply to stay in the property. Many families who aren’t separated get excluded from benefits due to a joint claim so it seems unfair that single mums can still exploit the system by moving in new partners and not declaring them.  
 
  • Local authorities although under huge housing priority problems should award fathers with access that exceeds 100nights a year a percentage of points for a home that can accommodate. It won’t mean single fathers getting all the homes as it’s only some points, but it will at least help keep us in the mix rather than being completely written off.  
 
  • Lastly if like me you are lucky to find a new partner who you love and start a new journey with, when making honest upfront joint claims CMS payments should be excluded from the calculations, to say a payment that you obligated to pay is not excluded makes a mockery of the system as we do not have that money to spend so to include it only serves to provide a wrong figure to calculate from.
 
Moan over.

I hear you there !

I know for a fact that in the past couple of years, she has married (and divorced) and has since had another child with someone else. I can pretty much guarantee she is getting full child benefits for both (which is fair), has probably got a bigger house out of it (as boy/girl situation), she has probably said she doesn't know the father (of the second child but is receiving "private payments") but is happy for him to live in the council house that all of us tax payers fund - it makes me livid how this goes on under the noses of the council - but they hound us as if we are all crooks!!!
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#6
Hi. Been reading this thread with interest . can I confirm a few things please.
I'm employed . If I make the largest pension payment available on a new pension ran by my employer, 100% of the payment ( unlike the old csa 1)will be taking into account and reduce my maintenance payment .
I already have 3 deductions on my wage slip each month for Save As You Earn Share Scheme so I take it if I plough more into this, the maintenance payment drops also?
Make me furious that she is sitting there taking everything I earn in . ps. I pay my child support A1 also but some of these payments the CMA are gonna come up with I'm sure are gonna be crippling to me if I don't act now. I'm on CSA 1 now . Migrating to CSA 2 in March 17

thanks for your help
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#7
(09-09-2016, 05:48 AM)suggs108 Wrote: Hi. Been reading this thread with interest . can I confirm a few things please.
I'm employed . If I make the largest pension payment available on a new pension ran by my employer, 100% of the payment ( unlike the old csa 1)will be taking into account and reduce my maintenance payment .
I already have 3 deductions on my wage slip each month for Save As You Earn Share Scheme so I take it if I plough more into this, the maintenance payment drops also?
Make me furious that she is sitting there taking everything I earn in . ps. I pay my child support A1 also but some of these payments the CMA are gonna come up with I'm sure are gonna be crippling to me if I don't act now. I'm on CSA 1 now . Migrating to CSA 2 in March 17

thanks for your help

It's my understanding that the Save As You Earn employment schemes take your salary out of your NET pay not gross, therefore you would be caught still by the CMS. I do a BAYE which take mine out of gross. You are correct though with regards to the pension contributions, these do come out of your gross pay, thus reducing your liability to the CMS. Whether I recommend doing 100% of your wages I'm not sure as they can investigate excessive contributions. I believe someone mentioned on here the other day that the CMS have their own internal guidelines of around 16-22% being deemed acceptable.
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#8
hmmm there's a thing I'll need to check with HR. I'm sure SAYE is the same as far as deductions go.
I've also got a departure in place on csa1 for travelling expenses so hopefully they can put that in place again .
I really can't think of anything else. ?
Cycle to work doesn't operate where I work and Health Check same so really I could be relying on my pension.
Hopefully that's enough to wipe the smile off her face n stop being greedy. My son is 16 , just left school in June so I've only got 2 yr left of this s@&t. Hopefully!
like I say I pay my way , but like yourself won't have the Mickey taken!

Yes you are correct. SAYE = NET. Sad
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#9
(09-09-2016, 07:37 AM)suggs108 Wrote: hmmm there's a thing I'll need to check with HR. I'm sure SAYE is the same as far as deductions go.
I've also got a departure in place on csa1 for travelling expenses so hopefully they can put that in place again .
I really can't think of anything else. ?
Cycle to work doesn't operate where I work and Health Check same so really I could be relying on my pension.
Hopefully that's enough to wipe the smile off her face n stop being greedy. My son is 16 , just left school in June so I've only got 2 yr left of this s@&t. Hopefully!
like I say I pay my way , but like yourself won't have the Mickey taken!

Yes you are correct. SAYE = NET. Sad

Be careful what you put on here as if you're seen to be squirreling money away from greedy broads, you get judged without knowing the background information as to why you have to do this in the first place!
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#10
Thanks for your help Stan the Man. I've got 6 months to put something in place . I'll see how itpans out n update. thanks everyone for their help
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