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Old Contact Order
#1
Hi All

First post on here and need some advice.

Back in 2013 I applied for a contact order to see my son and one was granted by the courts, this was when my son was 6, he is now 11. The order was dated 4/4/13.

A lot has changed since then and the contact order is completely out of date and not relevant. The old contact order was worked around a previous shift pattern that I had at work, which has now also changed. I managed to get the ex to agree to change the pattern to every other weekend Fri, Sat, Sun and 6 weeks during school holidays.

I was paying child maintenance direct via standing order but was also paying school club fees and half of football fees she has now gone back to the CMS requesting a re-calculation and they have assessed my wages direct from HMIC and am now required to pay £90 extra each month. She is claiming I only have my son for less than 101 nights a year. I told the CMS that there is a contact order in place which shows this is higher, but they have said it is more than 12 months old its out of date and they don't except them as evidence.

Due to only having 20 days leave a year I cannot now stick to the 6 single weeks during school holidays as this is more than my leave entitlement so have told her that I will only be able to have him for 2 weeks in the summer holidays and 1 week at either xmas or new year. She has called the police stating that I am threatening to breach the court order!!

Questions:
1) Should CMS except a court order as evidence that is in place but 5/6 years old.
2) Can I apply for cancel or amend the court order.
3) what can she do if I don't do either but only have him for 3 weeks through the school years holidays

Ta
AMC
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#2
1) CSM will not accept your word and are awkward organisation anyway. They will just go by original court order.

2) It may be worth first speaking to your ex partner, if that fails then mediation. If both fail then you would need to return to court to variate order as your circumstances have changed considerably. You should during summer holidays to have your usual contact plus 2 weeks as well..bit hard to explain on here but you would still end up with half of holidays at least anyway . It is about your availability and not ex partners

3) What is your current court order state? What access are you meant to be having at moment?
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#3
(11-10-2018, 11:34 AM)warwickshire1 Wrote: 1) CSM will not accept your word and are awkward organisation anyway. They will just go by original court order.

2) It may be worth first speaking to your ex partner, if that fails then mediation. If both fail then you would need to return to court to variate order as your circumstances have changed considerably. You should during summer holidays to have your usual contact plus 2 weeks as well..bit hard to explain on here but you would still end up with half of holidays at least anyway . It is about your availability and not ex partners

3)  What is your current court order state? What access are you meant to be having at moment?

The CMS are unwilling to accept the court order at all saying it is too old despite still being in place.

Mediation failed at the first order which is why the court made an order back in 2013

The current court order is:

wk1: Friday from school, dropping off at school Monday morning
wk2: Thursday from school, drop off at school Friday morning
wk3: Weds from school, drop off at school Thurs morning

Then respondant to make child available for 6 single weeks during school holidays and any other contact as agreed by both parties. (this was when my son was 6.

So the new situation is: my son is now 11 and can walk to school (2 mins away) from his mums house. So I pick him up from her house. I only have him every other weekend fri, sat, sun and have said that I can have him for 3 weeks throughout the school year instead of 6, the reasons for this are: I only get 20 days leave, 6 weeks would mean 30 days leave. I am also in an IVA paying £250 a month back due to debts from the separation so money is tight. I cant agree to have him for 6 weeks if I don't physically have the leave to do it and only have a dad who is in his 60's who lives over 100 miles away
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#4
Family courts would expect you to reach agreement between yourselves. 1st you need to speak to your ex partner..if that doesnt work you would have to mediate again. if that fails then you would need to go back to court to variate order as circumstances changed. i cant see a problem courts love dishing out every other weekend and it seems more simplified.

If you have every other weekend that would run through summer holidays anyway then just leaves you to spread out the 3 weeks over the year. If you cant have 6 weeks then you cant do it so your ex would be deemed unreasonable. As for phoning police they probably thought it was laughable .
You could even let her breach it as court would do nothing as you tried to talk to her , tried to reason and your work doesnt allow many years later to be able to stick to it . also she has already changed contact to every other weekend which makes things simpler in general as well
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#5
thank you

Could she argue or claim that I am breaching the current order though if I now refuse to have him for only 3 weeks during school holidays
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#6
No, she cant breach you as you not failed to have them yet for the 6 weeks of summer holidays. She would have to wait until summer holidays and then breach you when you dont have them.

Family courts will then decide not to breach you and just deem your ex partner unreasonable as you have tried to talk to her and would of tried to mediate before then. They will variate order and probably wonder why if someone is only allowed 3 weeks holiday leave is even been made to come to court

add to that shes already changed order to allow you to have access every other weekend. most ex partners deny access dont moan about it being reduced
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#7
Thank you, she definately will as otherwise she will have to bear the cost of childcare in the weeks that I cant have him !!!
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#8
(11-10-2018, 11:14 AM)AMC327 Wrote: Hi All

First post on here and need some advice.

Back in 2013 I applied for a contact order to see my son and one was granted by the courts, this was when my son was 6, he is now 11. The order was dated 4/4/13.

A lot has changed since then and the contact order is completely out of date and not relevant. The old contact order was worked around a previous shift pattern that I had at work, which has now also changed. I managed to get the ex to agree to change the pattern to every other weekend Fri, Sat, Sun and 6 weeks during school holidays.

I was paying child maintenance direct via standing order but was also paying school club fees and half of football fees she has now gone back to the CMS requesting a re-calculation and they have assessed my wages direct from HMIC and am now required to pay £90 extra each month. She is claiming I only have my son for less than 101 nights a year. I told the CMS that there is a contact order in place which shows this is higher, but they have said it is more than 12 months old its out of date and they don't except them as evidence.

Due to only having 20 days leave a year I cannot now stick to the 6 single weeks during school holidays as this is more than my leave entitlement so have told her that I will only be able to have him for 2 weeks in the summer holidays and 1 week at either xmas or new year. She has called the police stating that I am threatening to breach the court order!!

Questions:
1) Should CMS except a court order as evidence that is in place but 5/6 years old.
2) Can I apply for cancel or amend the court order.
3) what can she do if I don't do either but only have him for 3 weeks through the school years holidays

Ta
AMC

Apply to Vary the Existing Court Order on form C100. 

The school cllub and football bill is hers. To be clear on this, the goverment will give her Tax Credits and Child Benefit, for the normal day to day costs.
If its afterschool child care, then Working Tax Credit will pay 70% of the cost, if under the law, she needs help with it.
Your child support payment is fully inclusive now its with CMS, and you do not have to pay a penny more under the law.

52-104 night bracket is correct, as you only have 3 nights either 20 or 18 times a year (depending if contact is in week 1 or 2 in your case year), plus 6 x 7 nights.
Posts made by me are my opinion and any factual information should be checked out. If you do not have a Solicitor, often your local CAB can get you some initial advice.
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#9
Thanks mate, guess 54-104 is right, but not sure how the court will feel if i ask to vary it and asking for less contact, know that sounds strange but cant do 6 weeks during school hols as only get 20 days leave a year
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#10
(11-10-2018, 06:29 PM)AMC327 Wrote: Thanks mate, guess 54-104 is right, but not sure how the court will feel if i ask to vary it and asking for less contact, know that sounds strange but cant do 6 weeks during school hols as only get 20 days leave a year

Contact is about your avaliablity as well as the childs rights. If your ex is in agreement, it could be a Consent Order.

How a Court looks at it, is is 2 ways.

School Term, if you ask for weekday contact, you need to show its workable.
Quality Time is weekends and school holidays, and regardless of where the child lives in the week, if you ask unless good reason why not, you would get 50% of that. Also, significant dates should be shared or turns each.

Under Employment Law, you should get 5.3 weeks a year, but an employer can say 4 weeks, if they will pay you to be off on the 8 Bank Holidays, what fall in school holidays.

My suggestion, is Friday pm till Monday am every other week.

Easter and Christmas, either 8 day block, or 2 x 4 day.  (me and my ex used to change over Boxing Day am, until lunchtime New Years day, rotating it every year.
Summer, a 2 week block, and ask the Court to Order that you can remove the child from the UK in that time, for Holidays. You will have to provide your ex with flight detail, where staying, who going and an emergancy phone number.
You should also have another weekend in the summer, but you have to bear in mind your ex has a right to a 2 week block if she wants a holiday also, so it needs flexablity on both sides for it to work. My suggestion is that she gives you the dates 3-6 months in advance, so that you can get the best price for your holiday.
Posts made by me are my opinion and any factual information should be checked out. If you do not have a Solicitor, often your local CAB can get you some initial advice.
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