Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Child arrangements order - resident vs contact
Have I got this this right....
 there are two types of child arrangements orders?, one that states with whom the child should live and the other is contact with whom,  when and where?

Reason I ask is I'm seeing this quoted everywhere "You can take the child abroad for 28 days without getting permission if a child arrangements order says the child must live with you"
Now the cao I have doesn't state or mention that at all even though child does indeed live with ex-partner so does the ex-partner need my permission to take child out the country still even if it is less than 28 days and provide details of said location? Or can she take child as quoted above?

Your ex is the resident parent and as the court order says the child lives with her I believe she has the right to take the child abroad, unless you feel their is the risk of non-return.

She will need to offer alternative contact times if her holiday impedes with when you are due to see your child.
But that's just it - it doesn't name her as the resident parent or state anywhere with 'whom the child shall live'. It merely states a regular contact pattern.
It is not common and even within legal professionals there is some confusion about whether contact orders (spend time with) can exist without a residence (lives with) order in place, either preexisting or made at same time as the contact order.

However McFarlane, the president of the family division has provided guidance that it can in fact be made and they have been made. I have just made a quick search for this guidance but can not find it. I do have it somewhere.

In fact I personally have such an order. The ex had a residence order in her favour, however during final hearing, the court wishing to send a message to ex about her controlling behaviour in the past, expressly dismissed the existing residence order. The result is a final order, even following unsuccessful appeal by ex, of a defined contact order, with no parent named as a 'resident' (lives with) parent.

In our case, and to answer your question, as the order does not state 'lives with' either parent, neither parent can remove the child from the jurisdiction for the 28 days without consent from the other. What we did however, is we added, by agreement, an order that both parents are free to take the child abroad during all school holidays including half terms.
Do you have an older type "contact order"? The old ones didn't always have the warning notice on the bottom. If it is an old style contact order it will be assumed that the ex is the resident parent (because it's an order for "contact"). And she will be allowed to take the child abroad for up to a month (my latest order says up to a month - the 28 day thing seems to have changed). However, technically both parents should need the consent of the other to take the child abroad for a holiday, if there is nothing on your order. If your ex did it without your consent, she probably wouldn't be breaking the law or breaching the order however. Whereas if you did it, you would. So you would need her consent. If she refused to give it you'd have to apply for a specific issues order to get the holiday ordered - and at that time, you could ask for an amendment added to the order to say either parent may take the child abroad for up to a month. Or you can agree it between you as JamW has.

So the legal terminology.

It changed from "Custody" and "Access" to "Residence" and "Contact".

Contact orders don't exist any more (except previous ones which are still in force). And there are now Child Arrangements Orders.

Residence and Contact are now called "Lives with" and "Spends time with".

I personally avoid using the term "contact" in any dealings with ex, solicitors or courts as it tend to be used by ex's and their solicitors in a kind of derogatory way as if you are a serf! So I skirt round it and say things like "when son is in my care" or "when son is here with me".

The psychological effect of language use is powerful. In my applications, by using that language I feel I am immediately treated with more credibility because of the way I view the time, rather than talking about "contact".

On the bottom of court orders now, I believe it is standard that there is a warning notice saying no-one may change the child's name without court permission or take the child abroad without courts permission. But that a parent who the child lives with may take the child abroad for up to a month.
No it is a child arrangements order. Nowhere does it state ex partner is the person with "Whom the child shall live". The wording exactly is "However, this does not prevent the removal of the child, for a period of less than 1 month, by a person named in the child arrangements order as a person with whom the child shall live".

She isn't. It just states contact times.
Interesting. Sounds like JamW's order then. I would take it that she has to seek your consent to take the children abroad then! Although she may not realise that.

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Mother changing agreed contact arrangements Sadman2016 5 4,275 09-16-2020, 09:50 PM
Last Post: Charlie7000
  CAFCASS-Covid-19-Advice for families on effective co-parenting and child arrangements JamW 0 2,072 03-22-2020, 05:38 PM
Last Post: JamW
  Warning to end contact arrangements Sadman2016 4 4,170 01-06-2020, 01:23 AM
Last Post: marwood
  Interim contact arrangements advice thelongroad 22 20,914 12-23-2018, 04:19 PM
Last Post: thelongroad
  Child arrangements sandman 8 9,534 12-05-2018, 05:21 PM
Last Post: proud_dad
  Child Arrangements Looplecram 2 3,873 10-26-2018, 04:07 PM
Last Post: MarkR
  Child custody arrangements alexroutledge 2 3,705 10-12-2018, 05:30 PM
Last Post: watsa64
  Child Arrangements Advice herman_blume 13 14,876 08-28-2018, 03:02 PM
Last Post: herman_blume
  Agreed child arrangements order sandman 4 5,463 08-27-2018, 08:56 PM
Last Post: Tamagoto
  Arrangements order and problems with social worker marky1974 1 2,494 07-30-2018, 09:07 PM
Last Post: warwickshire1

Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)