Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Watertight CAO
#1
I have a clearing next week and there is a small possibility that we come to an agreement with ex. My solicitor asked me what I’d like in terms of parenting plan. CAFCASS messed me around for 2 years and recommended every other weekend with midweek tea time. My application was for full custody due to various reasons. However, I know that this isn’t going to happens so fold CAFCASS that I would settle for 3 weekend out of 4 plus half of holidays.
My question is how to watertight an order. I have seen a lot of dads on here having to go to court to vary their order but I want to think about everything to save to go back to court for variations.

I’d appreciate your input.
Reply
#2
Does solicitor want you to actually write a parenting plan and has the court asked for one? If the court hasn’t asked for one you could draw one up as a document for negotiation. But if it is a hearing at which an order could be made- by consent or otherwise, you could also draw up a draft order or set out the arrangements you want in a position statement for the hearing and use that for negotiation. Bear in mind if it is a possibility of agreement there will need to be concessions to reach agreement so you would need to ask for more than you want and compromise down from that.

I would suggest 50/50 shared care, lives with both parents on the basis of 3 week ends out of 4. A video call on the fourth week end, all the half terms and half the remaining holidays. So the extra time for 50/50 (ish) is made up via the holidays. With a video call for ex during half term holidays.

You can then negotiate down to three week ends out of four and half of all holidays.

They might wonder why you don’t want to do the midweek tea time so you would need a good reason so they don’t see it as you just not being committed. Eg working hours wouldn’t allow midweek with the additional travel.

What is the hearing? A final hearing? Any statements to do?
Reply
#3
(01-16-2021, 04:58 PM)Sb1353 Wrote: I have a clearing next week and there is a small possibility that we come to an agreement with ex. My solicitor asked me what I’d like in terms of parenting plan. CAFCASS messed me around for 2 years and recommended every other weekend with midweek tea time. My application was for full custody due to various reasons. However, I know that this isn’t going to happens so fold CAFCASS that I would settle for 3 weekend out of 4 plus half of holidays.
My question is how to watertight an order. I have seen a lot of dads on here having to go to court to vary their order but I want to think about everything to save to go back to court for variations.

I’d appreciate your input.

A cafcass officer CANT recommend 3 weekends out of 4 . Its impossible. Only way to get 3 weekends out of 4 is if your ex agrees to it at final hearing.  I would take the every other weekend and ask for the midweek teatime to be an overnight so you would be on 10 nights out of 28 and half of holidays of course. wish your ex a full recovery , but if things took a turn for the worse with 10 nights out of 28 you would be in a very strong position to have temporary residency. Your ex is also likely to agree to things if u come across nice and mindful of her condition. It seems u must be already getting on slightly better as things are moving forward now. good luck with it all
Reply
#4
I have a direction hearing next week. Solicitor asked me to write what I would want which works for me. Judge didn’t want to go to final hearing because he wanted to give us a chance to agree between ourselves. There is a small chance that we could agree so a consent order can be drafted. What I am after that what I should consider to put in the order to prevent me going back to court in the future i.e holidays, if children are ill and it’s my weekend what should I do? Or if school is shut where do I pick children from etc

Warwickshire CAFCASS recommendation isn’t enough. She even didn’t recommend midweek contact due to distance. I mentioned in previous post that it will take 50 minutes to get to school/ hers from mine. If I accept it it means from seeing my children every week, children will have to wait 14 days to see me which is very long. Midweek contact only recommended for teatime so it’s could, of hours which won’t work with my work and children going to bed as early as 7 pm.
As much as I want to end this court proceeding after 29 months I don’t think it is fair on children and me to accept below minimum which every father gets.
Reply
#5
I dont think a judge can order anymore than every other weekend, half of the holidays and midweek contact (pick up from school and some dinner).
Some dads end up moving closer to their children to get more contact and make it workable or end up changing work hours.

If your ex partner did get very ill then things could become different but then u would already need to be seeing children regular already.

Only other thing is to get your ex partner to agree by consent to just the 3 weekends out of 4 and not have any midweek contact at all and share the holidays. she may not agree to this as she would see it as only having 1 weekend with kids
Reply
#6
I think that is the intention - for solicitors to try and thrash out an agreement for a consent order before the hearing. The point of 3 week ends in 4 is because midweek isn’t possible. If agreement can’t be reached then Judges usually order what Cafcass have recommended. But you could still make a good argument for more at a final hearing.

I think you and your solicitor do have good bargaining strength. After all you applied for residency. Because your children aren’t actually living with their Mother very much.

I have seen shared care orders even when parents have lived in different countries where they have ordered all the holidays with one parent, bar two weeks, and all term time with the other. These are unusual circumstances and that will be part of your argument.

My point is if trying to negotiate a consent order it’s better to go in with more so there is room to negotiate down.

Eg your solicitor could say - he applied for residency but is prepared to agree to 50/50 shared care. Her solicitor would say - but Cafcass only recommended eow and a midweek tea time. Yours would say that is enough time with their Dad when their Mum is in hospital so much and we can still argue for residency. And settle on 60/40 shared care. 3 we out of four and half the holidays. But put more than that on your plan.

Having a template with you, whether it’s a parenting plan or a draft order, means there is something down in black and white - not just words - and bits can be crossed out and written on/added so there is agreed wording on the day.

My advice though, based on bitter experience, is if you do get agreement on the day is pre ask your solicitor to be prepared to write up the order on the day abd leave it for sealing or the other side could delay agreeing the terms and wording or ages after the hearing and delay it being sealed. I almost ended up having to go back to court to get the wording approved.

Another thing is (ask solicitor about this) - if agreement is reached on all but one or two points you can go before the Judge and ask them to determine those two points. The order would then be part consent and part ordered by the court (that is what I have).
Reply
#7
just as my example, I had a very detailed draft order created which somehow Judge wasn't very pleased with ! it may very well be that both I and Ex didn't have the representation and the judge probably wasn't going to be spending that much time typing it out ! Every case is different and judges are different, so he made a comment about my detailed order and suggested that both parents should behave like parents and communicate more among ourselves !
Reply
#8
I have heard before that of a Judge likes a parenting plan they will use the details in that to make the order. Which might be why your Solicitor is asking you for details for a parenting plan. My parenting plan was basically what should be in an order. I expect ex’s was - son doesn’t like going to his Dads blah blah.

If you need some ideas for setting one out or what to put in it there is a good template in the link below. It can be edited so you can take out some headings or adjust them or add new headings. The download link is at the bottom of the page

For example I took out Mother at the top and just left it as my own parenting plan so it just said Father. It is basically what you think a parenting plan should be for both parents even though it’s done by yourself. I found it made me think about some aspects I hadn’t thought about and adapted it to suit what I wanted in it and didn’t want in it.
https://www.separatedfamilies.info/home/...greements/
Reply
#9
Just had a brief hearing today. My position was 3 weekend out of 4 plus most of holiday and overnight stay to start immediately.
Ex position was 6 months wait for whole weekend and after that every other weekend. No holiday in 2021 then shared holiday in 2020 waiting for 18 months.
Judge wanted to make decision based on his view which was 6 weekend for 1 day every week then every other weekend with couple hours midweek. 2 weeks holiday in summer then till wait till Christmas for shared holiday( even less than CAFCASS).He gave us couple of weeks to think about it. Obviously this is very little for me fighting this for 2.5 years. He didn’t consider a out of lies she told the court, going through fact finding hearing and in concluded in my favour. He did nit take it into account.

CAFCASS report has contradictory all over it. Judge doesn’t think we should have the author of the report at the court. Basically he has his made his mind up! Children come from duel heritage family and it has been ignored that. Obviously ex is quiet happy that she has won this and is laughing now. Not sure what to do now. I was hoping to have the children overnight this week but yet again let down by the system! They don’t put the children first though. Judge comment was I am trying to run before I can walk forgetting that my older was in my care full time from age of 7 months when his mother building her career away from home.
Reply
#10
I would accept what the judge has said . looks good to me compared to what ex has offered. she has made some lovely mistakes which judge has spotted in shes agreeing to contact including overnights and making u wait a unacceptable amount of time.

The judge is offering you overnights which u have not had 1 every weekend for 6 weeks . he cant order more than 1 overnight as u not had kids overnight so always starts at 1 . after 6 weeks its every other weekend which is the maximum a judge can order anyway . If you can pick up from school and drop off to school that every other weekend could be 3 overnights stays every other weekend. He has also offered u few hours midweek ..thats set up to be converted to overnight if u ever lived closer in future. You never had half f the holidays , ex contesting again hes offering u a significant amount . And he is right saying you are trying to run before u can walk , i take that he is saying u want everything now immediately. U are getting all this contact because find a fact hearing was concluded in your favor.

Your ex wont be laughing and think she has won.. I think you will find she is livid and very angry believe it or not as she has got nothing she has asked for .if she ever becomes ill and cant have kids for a significant amount of time they will come to you due to amount of contact u will then be having as well.

Also remember we are in a national lockdown and in middle of a freezing january. when u get your every other weekends it will be starting to get nice and warm and restrictions slowly being lifted,

Well done u done well today .
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)